Israeli Violence should stop
- Thread starter Pleiadian
- Start date
I don't think there is any disagreement that the historical and on going violence needs to stop thats not in question. How best to sustainable stop it and build a better future for everyone is.
So before you rather flippantly sum up in to a few short sound bites all the complexities of the issue and flip the bird to what ever scene you perceive there to be why not formulate an argument rather than just venting your frustrations on here.
Why not organize a benefit party of your own rather than waiting for someone else to do it for?
Get tha ball rolling if that what you want.
So before you rather flippantly sum up in to a few short sound bites all the complexities of the issue and flip the bird to what ever scene you perceive there to be why not formulate an argument rather than just venting your frustrations on here.
Why not organize a benefit party of your own rather than waiting for someone else to do it for?
Get tha ball rolling if that what you want.
In 2007 I released a benefit CD aimed to help the child victims of Israels slaughter raid in Lebanon. What did I get out of it from this so called PLUS scene? Very angry emails from Israelis and other pro-Israeli die hard fans of Israeli trance. All members of the so-called self proclaimed PLUR scene and on top of it I also received canceled gigs from European organizers. Got my point?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00srh9f/Freedom_Sounds_2010_Episode_2/
Now I know the parallels aren't the same in this situation but music and art are avenues of communication that can effect change. You you blanket boycott these artistic avenues then you ban the spreading and sharing of ideas and ideals between people.
These series shows the important role music played in the African apartheid struggle over the years.
Now I know the parallels aren't the same in this situation but music and art are avenues of communication that can effect change. You you blanket boycott these artistic avenues then you ban the spreading and sharing of ideas and ideals between people.
Lord Lucan
Pierced member
In 2007 I released a benefit CD aimed to help the child victims of Israels slaughter raid in Lebanon. What did I get out of it from this so called PLUS scene? angry emails from Israeli and other pro-Israeli die hard fans of Israeli trance. All members of the so-called PLUR scene and on top of it I also received canceled gigs from European organizers. Got my point?
Sometimes to stick with our principles has a cost.
Anything that is worth something generally doesnt come for free.
Be careful with that line of argument, for it can easily lead to justification of apathy and non-action, even though I know it ain't the case here. You have to start fixing the world somewhere, might just as well be the middle east.
Both Israel and Palestina have proved many times unable and unwilling to put an end to the violence. What's more, both Israel and Iran are starting to take themselves far too seriously and in the process might drag us all into another world war. Perhaps it's time to put some serious muscle there, this time for a real cause. They've had over 40 years to fix it.
The established music industry and Cultural world is slowly starting to react. Roger Waters, Elvis Costello, The Pixies, Carlos Santana, Gill Scott-Heron, Lowkey, Gorillas Sound System and Klaxons have canceled their shows in Israel. French theatres cancel screening of Israeli Film. Organisers of Spanish gay pride ban Israeli delegation from taking part. A South Korean University cancels granting the Israeli President Shimon Peres honorary doctorates.
If this expands into a real boycut will the psytrance scene follow? I doubt it.
If this expands into a real boycut will the psytrance scene follow? I doubt it.
Then well done.In 2007 I released a benefit CD aimed to help the child victims of Israels slaughter raid in Lebanon. What did I get out of it from this so called PLUS scene? Very angry emails from Israelis and other pro-Israeli die hard fans of Israeli trance. All members of the so-called self proclaimed PLUR scene and on top of it I also received canceled gigs from European organizers. Got my point?
Releasing that CD was bound to get you angry Israeli and pro Israeli fans because there are very strong and deeply ingrained feeling that stretch back in to history in this conflict. In a situation like this one with these different factions expecting anything but that type of come back would be naive. But I'm sure your CD had a beneficial effect to for those it informed of the atrocities.
As for the European gigs you lost that also not surprising if unfortunate and very sad and the reasoning behind it is of concern but still no reason to give up on the scene but maybe deserve sections of it that are less than in to PLUR out side of being trendy or they may be people who don't agree with one %100 on all points.
I for instance agree that violence needs to stop but I'm much more for building bridges than blowing them up which is how I see the boycotting of ideas as.
So while I agree with the fundamental principle I can't stand side by side with those who would go about effecting change in a way I can't agree with.
Also if you bring anger to the table that what you will come back I don't know but a assume your anger derives from the experience but if it were already there and discernible in the CD making it inflammatory (it probably wasn't to Joe Bloggs) then you can see why anger helps no one but that just conjecture on one possible scenario.
All these possibilities go toward why you had the reaction you did and why its not as simple as we all might want it to be.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00srh9f/Freedom_Sounds_2010_Episode_2/ in the iplayer link skip to 35 minutes in where they start talking about music performance boycotts
munilooney
tandemista
Allo...
Haven't forgot about this debate - just been hectic busy, down with a case of the screaming squits and engaged in a similar debate elsewhere. Ain't got time to get too deep and wont have for another couple of weeks but just wanted to raise this point:
You agree with what I posted:
"There are currently moves afoot by some Western governments to impose economic sanctions on Iran that most definitely will have detrimental effects to the health & life of ordinary Iranians, and could very well move on to military attacks in the not too distant future (Anything familiar about this turn of events?). Iran is in breach of far fewer UN resolutions and has violated fewer laws and treaty's than Israel, yet sanctions and even attacks are openly discussed. If there were an equality of justice in this world then sanctions would long ago have been applied to Israel. "
If so, then who's going to carry out these sanctions because as long as the US has permanent membership on the UN security council it's unlikely there'll be UN sanctions against Israel?
Here's a link to a pretty deep debate I've been getting into on the unicyclist forum with an Israeli chap I've spent time with at conventions. I've posted links in that debate that are very much relevant to this one and I would urge folks here to have a gander.
Cheers - hopefully be back in a week or so once all the current hectivity is over.
Hectivity.. I like that word it will no be used in the dictionary of me.
munilooney
tandemista
No worries... the first one's free.
Speakafreaka
Champagne Rouletter
Barenboim himself has spoken of the ensemble as follows:
"The Divan is not a love story, and it is not a peace story. It has very flatteringly been described as a project for peace. It isn't. It's not going to bring peace, whether you play well or not so well. The Divan was conceived as a project against ignorance. A project against the fact that it is absolutely essential for people to get to know the other, to understand what the other thinks and feels, without necessarily agreeing with it. I'm not trying to convert the Arab members of the Divan to the Israeli point of view, and [I'm] not trying to convince the Israelis to the Arab point of view. But I want to - and unfortunately I am alone in this now that Edward died a few years ago - ...create a platform where the two sides can disagree and not resort to knives."
Myself, I'm of the Herman Hesse school of thought, but massively respect this man.
Where we agree is I'm sure he and I (and probably everyone in that orchestra) wish we could watch an Arab-Jewish orchestra play Wagner with nothing other than the quality of the performance being a cause for comment.
Count me in but I might need a break if its the whole of the ring cycle. everyone needs sleep.
B
burp
Guest
there are still people that need to have good relationships with them unfortunately and afraid as organizers to do such a thing, israelis have good connections and tentacles everywhere they have money and will not hesitate to fuck you as well if you do such a thing.
money and connections rules, this world is so beautiful
i hope at least the people to be more awaken and choose not to go to any party israelis are playing, maybe then organizers will stop bringing them as well
So Israelis are amorous electric octopuses now then?
Your really stretching my disbelief now burp
Your really stretching my disbelief now burp
B