24-bit sound

So vinyl sounding fuller has nothing to do with superior dynamic range over digital?
 
Depends who you listen to.....

However digital will always have a superior frequency response than vinyls a they use high pass filters in mastering to remove the very low frequencies. Most producers will do this anyway but at least its possible to include them if you wanted to.
 
Depends who you ask really. It's important to remember that there are benefits and drawbacks to both the analogue and digital domains. It's also got to be remembered that an awful lot of 'audiophile' gear makes very little difference to one's ability to perceive sound. Simon Posford mixed his first 3 albums on a set of knackered old hi-fi speakers, and Ott mixes on an old Sony ghetto blaster.

I think vinyl sounds less 'precise', but that there's a 'chunkiness' to the bass and lower mid range that makes it good for certain types of music.

The relative dynamic range question has more to do with second-rate mastering engineers trying to squeeze as much gain out of the format as they can, rather than trying to get a good sound.

J.
 
Simon Posford mixed his first three albums on a knackered old hi fi? So all that time in Youths Butterfly studios learning his craft he didn't think to use the state of the art equipment that he had access to everyday? I have no idea how he mixed his albums, it would just seem strange that someone who had a job in a cutting edge trance studio would mix his own tracks at home on some crusty old hi fi.........
 
I think he could be pulling our leg.......Fair dues if its the case, I'm just bemused why someone who was working in Butterfly studio's at the time, would choose to mix their albums on £40 hi fi speakers. In one bit of the article OTT says room acoustics and monitors are the most important part of your studio (apart from kettle and bong :Wink3: )and then he says the records we all love and cherish (Hallucinogen and Shpongle) were mixed on to quote OTT:
They were all mixed on a set of REVOLTING hi-fi speakers, bought from Richer Sounds ten years ago for about £40, and run off some crappy old hi-fi amp until the bass drivers ripped and had to be repaired with gaffa tape.

So, is Simon an Alien? Did he have perfect room acoustics and crappy speakers? Did he have crappy room acoustics and crappy speakers? Did he write album on crappy set up and mix it at Youths studios?

So: a) he's an alien
b) he has the most remarkable, non tiring ears, making him able to hear all those details through a barrage of sound refelections....
c) he actually had quite a decent studio or did majority of mixing work at Butterfly studios for first two albums, and by Sphongle he had a very competent set up.........

Someone help!!!!! There must be a straight answer :ibiggrin:
 
Yeah, but he also says that you can learn pretty much any room and speaker combination if you really want to...

Having top-draw gear is nice, but all it will do is make life a bit easier. I found separating sounds in the mid-range quite a lot easier when I went from my old hifi setup to Yammie MSP5s, but it didn't improve my tunes that much. Part of me is inclined to believe that it's just hard to tell someone that's just spent upwards of a grand or two on gold-plated connectors, room baffles and god knows what else* that my second-hand early '90s stereo (admittedly B&O) that I picked up off my dad for about eighty quid sounds pretty much as good.

At the end of the day, it's all about what you're used to, innit?

J.

* - I find the same applies to those who've spent a small fortune on hardware synths (particularly VA ones)
 
The whole point in having good monitors and room acoustics is so that you don't suffer listening fatigue. If you want to work for longer it would seem to make sense...........


This is what I found on the net about it:

A room with too many reflective surfaces will sound "bright" and recordings will tend to sound dull as the engineer reduces high frequencies while mixing. A room with too much absorbing surfaces will sound "dark" and recordings will tend to sound shrill as the engineer adds high frequencies to compensate for the room's lack of ambiance. And this is just for the high frequencies. More room issues await you in the mid and bass bands.
room-prob-1.gif

Green: Direct sound from loudspeakers.
Red: Primary reflections from close walls can be equal in volume to the direct sound causing ear fatigue. Slight time delays from traveling a longer path create comb filtering effects in the sweet spot.
Blue: Secondary reflections can create distinctive echoes. Flutter echoes are reflections between parallel walls. Chatter echoes are reflections that bounce around in corners before being returned to the listening area. Secondary reflections seem to ring on after sound from the loudspeakers has stopped.
 
Don't forget we're talking mixing here, not producing!

Most studios have a set of bog standard speakers or hifi to listen to mixes to ensure they sound right on equipment other than top line reference gear. Lots of CD's get taken away for listening in the car too.....
 
To get a good mix ideally you need good room acoustics (and monitors). My previous post avec diagram definitely shows the relevance in a mixing sense........And definitely use as many other sources to reference your mix against i.e. hi fi, car stereo. The point I was making was that fixing shoddy room acoustics and buying half decent monitors should be at the top of your priorities if you want to produce professional sounding music, and not something that was mixed in a bedroom......... At the end of the day we’re meant to be 90% musician and 10% engineers. I want to concentrate on making music, and if me being able to hear exactly what’s going on, and its not tiring my ears, then surely this is a good thing.

I know some of the more experienced cats have learned to get round said problems; however they’ve spent a very long time learning and honing very technical and non musical skills. Running spectral analyzers so you can see the rogue frequencies, and if there’s too much sub harmonics etc…… However (phew) nothing replaces your ears. None of these technical tomfooleries are needed if you are in a really good studio, i.e. somewhere that has great acoustics and a couple of pairs of monitors for you to A/B with. If you make and mix your tunes in said studio, you’ll just need your ears…Ears don’t lie…rappers do:ilol:
 
Night'S-Kool said:
[At the end of the day we’re meant to be 90% musician and 10% engineers.[/color]

I don't remember that being on the job description form I signed when I started making trance? Damn, that must be why I still have a dayjob - I'm only 50% of each. :irofl: :irolleyes
 
No offence to the older people here :ismile: , and respect to the learned producers (YKWYA), but I think the quality of most hi-fis these days is very good, a lot better than it used to be, probably about the same as basic monitors. I'll not be rushing down to my local charity shop to buy some speakers! (actualy wouldn't mind a pair of those clad in wood-grain effect!)
 
Consumer hi fi colours sound. Its a factoid. The purpose of monitors is to deliver a flat response. A consumer hi fi that responded the same as a basic monitor setup would not shift many units............If it was cheap enough maybe Simon would invest in a pair :Wink3: .....that actually would make a very good purchase!:iyes:
 
Consumer hi fi colours sound. Its a factoid. The purpose of monitors is to deliver a flat response.

If that was the case then there'd only be 2 sets of monitors on the market, small ones and big ones. Monitors are to give you an environment you're familiar with and know how that will translate to other sound sources. All studios should run an EQ to achieve flat response IN THE ROOM, however many people don't like the way flat response sounds, its not particularly great to be honest and not very natural. Flat is a good starting point from which to work however, so long as you KNOW that your monitors are a bit lacking around 3k, then you can mix to compensate.

If flat response was what made good recordings then how come NS10's (aah, i hear you cry - that old chestnut!) found their way into soooo many studios....and onto the credits of soooo many classic albums.

Sounds to me like you're doing the 'Production Techniques by Numbers' thing....
 
Reminds me of 2 old producers having dinner one evening....

Prod 1: Can you pass the spectrum analyser please dear.
Prod 2: But you've not even tried it yet? I've put plenty of frequencies in already!
Prod 1: Yes, but its habit you know, and i always have more frequencies on my top end.
Prod 2: *Despairing look and shake of head*



ok, i'll get coat...
 
Reminds me of what one deaf producer might say to a one with very good hearng:

Prod 1: Can you pass the spectrum analyser please dear.
Prod 2: But you've not even tried it yet? I've put plenty of frequencies in already!
Prod 1: Yes, but its habit you know, and i always have more frequencies on my top end.
Prod 2: *Despairing look and shake of head* :irofl: :irolleyes
 
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