ableton live as a compositional tool?

AEON

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hi,

i'm considering migrating from FLStudio to another sequencer at some point. i have a few considerations...

1) i make mainly psytrance and chillout, but i really want to further develop the industrial and classical instrumental stuff i write as well.

2) i'm in the process of taking apart my live set and putting it back together with an emphasis on more creative control. i need a host that is stable, easily configurable with midi controller / hardware synth / outboard effects, and pc/vst/i friendly.

3) i'm not very rich. however i do have a 'delta' version of live which came bundled with me souncard - and for another 4 days, ableton are offering upgrades to the *full* Live 5 for 135 squids.

i've been leaning towards Live 5 because it seems the most intuitive yet capable for both audio & midi, and the best suited to live performance.

i'm running XP with

- 2.8ghz P4 with 1g RAM
- m-audio omnistudio usb
- edirol controller

i'm wondering - does anyone predominantly use live as an actual compositional tool? for building a new track from start to finish? what are its limitations as an all-in-one tool for the creation of electronic music?
 
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makdaddy

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AEON said:
ableton are offering upgrades to the *full* Live 5 for 135 squids.

nice price! would be very ineterested in taking ableton up on that *scrabbles around for little green upgrade card*

AEON said:
does anyone predominantly use live as an actual compositional tool? for building a new track from start to finish?

Yes ! no doubt many do, i know a few and i would

AEON said:
what are its limitations as an all-in-one tool for the creation of electronic music?

you need to have a good sniff around here:icool:
 

ChrisCabbage

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So far I'd say it's pretty good for producing percussion loops or sounds triggered by a single *hit*. Becomes pretty fiddly if you're trying to draw notes with variable length.

I am only on my second day with it, so I probably don't know all the tips & tricks yet.

:Wink3:

What I am interested in though is:

If I were to export split down the audio from Cubase for Live, anyone come up with a good way of beat-matching that into the next track (without setting everything up before-hand).

Aplogies if that's a bit of a basic question (and a bit offtopic), but I'm having trouble seeing a way forward with that.

If only there was a way to fine tune / adjust the jogs...
 

trancetheory

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Purusha said:
So far I'd say it's pretty good for producing percussion loops or sounds triggered by a single *hit*. Becomes pretty fiddly if you're trying to draw notes with variable length.

drawing notes? *mock shock horror* how about playing notes instead then? :iwink: hehe

well no, I draw aswell sumtimes, it is a little fiddly, and tbh I think its really stoopid you have to switch off the draw tool to be able to change the length of a note, but they should fix that in the next one I hope...

Aeon Live! is wikid, I've been using it for a few months now, and I aint ever going back to Cubase :dancey: I use it for both Djing & Producing, and the fact you can mix the two together is the best thing imo

Only thing I have problems with is my damn keyboard, but I think thats more to do with a dodgy USB port than anything else :icool:


hmm one last problem, the Freeze render is really fukin slow, that needs sorting

Edit: Live was created as a composition tool, not as a Dj tool, it just happened to be so damn good at matching loops, it was great for Djing aswell :Smile3:
 

trancetheory

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Purusha said:
If I were to export split down the audio from Cubase for Live, anyone come up with a good way of beat-matching that into the next track (without setting everything up before-hand).

Sync the midi clock of ableton to cubase...?
 
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makdaddy

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miszt said:
... I think its really stoopid you have to switch off the draw tool to be able to change the length of a note,

why dont you setup a keyboard shortcut / hotkey for toggling the draw tool ?

you can setup keys for bloody everything in that program
 
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makdaddy

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get over it ! :raspberry


set it to 'D' on your keyboard..easy
 

ChrisCabbage

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makdaddy said:

Already have, but they don't cover the mode I'm after. I'm looking to use complete tracks of multi-tracked audio and the tutorials I've been through only really cover loops.

If all my tracks were *exactly* the same length, then I guess it would work fine.

:Wink3:

Like I say - early days for me with this app yet, so any help is appreciated.
 

ChrisCabbage

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miszt said:
drawing notes? *mock shock horror* how about playing notes instead then? :iwink: hehe

I do both.

:Wink3:

I find drawing notes *very* fiddly so far, but bear in mind I've been on Cubase for a *long* time and am very used to that interface.
 
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makdaddy

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its all about the warp markers Purusha, after a little use i was able to bring a track of any length and tempo inline with the track tempo / timing with just a simple movement of a couple of warp markers.

I havent had ableton installed on my computer for like 5 months now *misses production terribly* or i would give you a step by step ( feeling Rusty :iyes: )
 

ChrisCabbage

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I can set up warp markers etc and use the cross fader etc, but what I'm struggling with is: starting a new track to overlap with the end of the old one.

Do you align things before-hand and slide them dynamically into the arrange screen?

I also think setting up some midi controls for EQ would be useful. That Evolution MIDI DJ console might be the (or at least 'a') way forward there I guess.
 

ChrisCabbage

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I'd also ideally have fine control over the jog to find the *sweet* spot for the mix. Warp markers might work fine if track A is to be mixed into B which is then mixed into C, but because the shape of kicks can vary, If I wanted to do A, C then B - the sweet spot on A to C might be a bit different.

I've had this discussion with a well known / big name act (let's call them Mr. H and Ms. G :Wink3:) who've also been looking at Live. That aspect is putting them off Live at the minute. If only it allowed for fine tuning via a jog type mechanism...

Wonder if Live 6 will improve things in this area...?
 
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makdaddy

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drag your new track onto the arrange page, set your 1st warp marker to the 1st defined beat of the track - now, drag the track back (in direction - to the left) into the mix so it beatmatches with the previous - now you can expand the pre-roll (beginning of the track before the 1st warp marker) by dragging the start of the track to the left.

you get me ? apologies if this is a crap explanation and to be honest ive never used it for djing, just a bit of composition and pre constructed live sets
 

ChrisCabbage

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Yep - I get you.

It's then a case of cross-fading between the two.

Like I say though - the 'sweet spot' issue is the next big problem for me. Wonder if I could use the track delay as a stop-gap measure (if it goes both ways)?
 

Lazytom

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Ableton Live kicks so much ass its almost unbelieveable. I still use Logic for mixing (cos I know the plugins well), some automation (cos my computer doesnt like it when I automate too much in Live) and recording hardware synth parts (ditto), but I do everything else in Live. Live 5 is a fully-featured DAW so with the right 'puter you shouldn't need anything else.
 

psyfi

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IMHO Live five is a great prog to work in. I'm currently trying to get to grips with it as a full tune writing tool. I love the internal routeing and many ways it's more logical than logic. The only thing holding me back from switching totally over to live is that it isn't compatible with the waves plugins but as always there are other plugins to choose from. Also some of the features of logic I will miss but that just what I'm use to. It has some features of its own that beat the pants off logic with regard to it's handling of audio and it also has a recovery feature. Also you can use battery 2 as a multi instrument in it but you can't in logic. I think that I'm going to use the two progs in tandem in the future. At least until I can be as fluid with live as I am with logic.
Plus it's much cheaper than logic or cubase and for me thats a massive bonus.
 
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