Animal rights lunatics . . . .

Hab

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. . . . due to be sentenced next week for theft of that lady's corpse - comeuppance justly deserved. Discuss.
 

natacha_

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I think it was a really negative way to protest, and doesn't help their cause at all. People that don't know anything about animal rights will probably sit up and take notice but not in a positive way, probably in a negative way - because after all, it is a grave robbery.

There are better ways to get your message across.

xo
 

Stuoolong

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These people who protest against torture and cruelty towards animals by torturing and being cruel to people are sick.

I hope they get a just sentence.
 

Xenomage

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Damn right. When it comes down to it we hace more rights than animals. And we should as well.

Eco-terrorism is the single greatest threat to our economy at the moment...
 

Stuoolong

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Xenomage said:
Damn right. When it comes down to it we hace more rights than animals. And we should as well.

Eco-terrorism is the single greatest threat to our economy at the moment...

:imad: No way! We do NOT have more rights than animals, and if we do we shouldn't. I totally agree with the aims of these protestors - that cruelty by humans to other animals in any form should be stopped. Especially laboratory animals.

However, I completely disagree with the way a few of them are going about it. There seems to be this mindset of "do unto the perpetrators what they do to the animals" i.e. torture, terrorism, outright attacks and more pschological messages like digging up graves. This kind of eye-for-an-eye behaviour is wrong, wrong, wrong. It's fighting fire with fire and will only serve to make the people involved in the industries involved more determined.
It's as hypocritical as anti war protestors marching on Downing Street with guns.

Of course, a bigger problem is the range of people they target. At first it was just company directors of the "worse" laboratories. Nowadays it's all the employees (whether they have much choice in working there or not), and even employees of other companies that fund or buy shares in the laboratories. Most of these people have little or nothing personally to do with animal experiments and wouldn't want to. I would guess most of them are just working there because it's a job and they need to feed their families, and company x is the main employer in their town.
 

badger

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I'm in 2 minds :@0 usually the case! I don't like the abuse of animals, but it seems a necessary evil when it comes to medicine. Inaccurate and big pharma to soome degree are greater evils, but you'd still have diabetics taking pig insulin and asthmatics in an early grave if there was no modern medicine. Factory farming, cosmetic testing and that i really don't like. But i live off (asthma) medicine, and I hope these people never get anything wrong with them or they'll turn into blatant hypocrites if they need to take anything! plus every household chemical and medicine for animals is tested on other animals, so you need to live a very pure life to maintain the moral high ground on animal testing. I think people have got a bit carried away, and now people just won't listen too their valid points :@)
 

Xenomage

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badger said:
.... Inaccurate and big pharma to soome degree are greater evils, but you'd still have diabetics taking pig insulin and asthmatics in an early grave if there was no modern medicine. ... ...But i live off (asthma) medicine, and I hope these people never get anything wrong with them or they'll turn into blatant hypocrites if they need to take anything!

No, they'd rather suffer than let an animal do it. And that's a fair standard to set. Personally I think it's a bit daft, but really a human is worth more to another human than pretty much every animal that has EVER lived, with the exception of labour animals (there was probably a time and a place where a horse was a hell of a lot better than another mouth), and you'd be pretty pissed (I imagine, but what, I don't even know you so ignore me if I'm wrong here) if somebody very close to you died and a few months later they released a cure, or even just something to treat the symptoms, say after delays from animal rights "lunatics".

But maybe other humans mean very little to you. Thay sure as hell mean a lot to other people...
 

badger

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oops if i've been misunderstood :@) I'm on the same track as you - but rather 'dyslexic' am afraid. Our dept at uni had no end of problems with them!! I was trying to say animal rights activists have to maintain a moral high ground if they have any argument, which they cannot do. Unless they never take medication, they never travel abroad or have vaccines, they never buy any household product etc. Even all the ingredients in make up and household products 'not tested on animals' has at some point been tested individually, else it could never be licensed to be sold for human use. Its just the final product that hasn't been tested. SO they must either be a very healthy, or long suffering lot, or not live up to their own standards and critcise others. If they moved they labs abroad, the animals would get treated far worse. ;'0
 

Stuoolong

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Whatever medicines are out there at the moment - tested on animals they usually are - you can't change that. Refusing to take them because of that is foolish. The animals used in those experiements have already been tested on and gone to heaven. Doesn't stop the argument for phasing out animal experiments from now on.
 

badger

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I'm not an animal rights activist, or a militant vegetarian, but i respect ALL life, and think it shouldn't be abused, animals included. BUT I think we need to sort our own species out first..........which includes pharmaceutical companies, who treat people worse than animals. In some countries, poor people are lab rats. So we need greater international human rights. I wish the animal rights people could campaign without harming anyone, but recently they have missed the point, like the 'pro-lifers' who attack abortion clinic staff. Some people cause trouble under any banner.
 

Fluffyfairy

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I hate any form of cruelty towards anyone not just animals but i also belive in peaceful protests ! But i can see how you might of got pissed off with nothing happening and not being able to see an end to it all but stealing dead people was never gona be the right thing to do !!! xxx
Peace and love to all
:ibiggrin:
 

Lyra

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Its the whole "eye for an eye" issue which just isnt workable, eco-terrorism is not the right way to go about it, and i wholeheartedly agree with much what has been said above....

I wasnt aware before i started fundraising for cancer research UK last year just how much of the medication we take and use is and have to be tested on animals. Seeing two close family relatives die because of cancer, and knowing that lots of animals are probably being tested right now to find cures for cancer... well.. maybe it is a necessary evil. But i do believe that more money and research needs to be put into phasing animal testing out bit by bit, but i guess that depends on governmental support, fear of litigation, money, medical research etc.
 

CosmoNaughty

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Hab said:
. . . . due to be sentenced next week for theft of that lady's corpse - comeuppance justly deserved. Discuss.

My total support goes out to Kerry and John who are up in court for this today, at least that fuckin' old bitch lived a full life and died of old age a privallage that hundreds of thousands of guinea pigs didn't have, reared to be tortured to death in vivisection labs. the courts will throw the book at them but it was a great victory for anyone who belives in the fight for animal liberation the farm was closed down !!!!!
 

AEON

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it was a terrible thing to do.

it turned a whole shitload of people right off...

to view this as a victory because one farm closed is a bit shortsighted i reckon - for the next decade anytime animal rights is mentioned you know this case will be brought up by the media. that's a bit of a hollow victory don't you think?

i am all for the reduction of animal testing as much as is practically possible. only when it is absolutely necessary should it be utilised. but it should be utilised.

2.4 million people died of HIV/AIDS in africa in 2005. an estimated 2.3 million children are HIV/AIDS positive.

if you can look an african child in the eye and explain to them that they have to die because guinea pigs are more important... well... in my personal and honest opinion you've lost some basic perspective.
 

jibberer

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CosmoNaughty said:
My total support goes out to Kerry and John who are up in court for this today, at least that fuckin' old bitch lived a full life and died of old age a privallage that hundreds of thousands of guinea pigs didn't have, reared to be tortured to death in vivisection labs. the courts will throw the book at them but it was a great victory for anyone who belives in the fight for animal liberation the farm was closed down !!!!!

Those people are fighting for a noble thing, the end of suffering for thousands of animals, but the ends most definetly do not justify the means. They may have closed down a farm, but the companies who use the guinea pigs will just get them from somewhere else, and all they have really achieved is to set their cause back years. If you tell someone now you believe in animal rights you will immediatly be branded a complete nutter by a good many people.
 
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dave arc-i

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an old ladies bits didn't deserve to be dug up AND neither do LD50 tests need to exist (IF they still do)

im not sure i can whole heartedly support drugs being tested on animals prior to humans anymore after the recent incidents with the drug test volunteers in london where the substances had been pretested on animals without the side effects - sort of proves there is no real validity in that type of testing

but i do find the whole biusiness of NOT leaving someone alone AFTER they are dead a touch on the abhorent side just as i do primates being used in ANY form of testing but the adage "two wrongs don't make a right" seems to be very applicable here
 

Goz

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dave arc-i said:
im not sure i can whole heartedly support drugs being tested on animals prior to humans anymore after the recent incidents with the drug test volunteers in london where the substances had been pretested on animals without the side effects - sort of proves there is no real validity in that type of testing

'Cept they tested a drug that was known to affect a specific protein that the animal they tested on didn't have ... it didn't get any side effects ... WHAT A SURPRISE!

Personalyl i think the drug company should be made an example of for that ... but that doesn't mean all animal testing is bad. Cosmetic testing on animals is unforgivable in my opinion but testign drugs is a necessary evil ... you just cannot replace that kind of testing with anything other than doing it on humans ...
 

spiralx

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jibberer said:
Those people are fighting for a noble thing, the end of suffering for thousands of animals, but the ends most definetly do not justify the means. They may have closed down a farm, but the companies who use the guinea pigs will just get them from somewhere else, and all they have really achieved is to set their cause back years. If you tell someone now you believe in animal rights you will immediatly be branded a complete nutter by a good many people.
They'll get them from somewhere abroad that doesn't have the strict regulations we do (the UK's are pretty much the strictest in the world), and they'll suffer because of the transport involved.

While I don't think animal testing is a particularly noble thing to do, there aren't any alternatives around if you don't want to stop medical research pretty much completely.
 
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dave arc-i

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Goz said:
... you just cannot replace that kind of testing with anything other than doing it on humans ...

*radical proposal alert*

test them on humans then, if they are intended for us as the end user's surely we have no *right* to inflict the tests upon the animals?

offer people convicted of the more serious crimes that entail a life sentence a chioice - a life sentence through the *normal* prison system OR volunteer for drugs testing for an easier reigeme and more privileges - wouldnt that also encompass the perception of the offender making amends to society?
 

Goz

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dave arc-i said:
*radical proposal alert*

test them on humans then, if they are intended for us as the end user's surely we have no *right* to inflict the tests upon the animals?

offer people convicted of the more serious crimes that entail a life sentence a chioice - a life sentence through the *normal* prison system OR volunteer for drugs testing for an easier reigeme and more privileges - wouldnt that also encompass the perception of the offender making amends to society?

While i certainly see the logic ... do you think enough people could be got together to do this? First time someone dies you can watch the number of willing volunteers plummet! And what if you can't get enough? Do you suggest forcing them against their will? I know this is what we do to animals and i fully appreciate that its a very contentious issue but, at present, i don't see any alternative. Sad as it is ... May be one day they'll be able to use a computer to simulate the human body but, i suspect, the moment they can do that we won't need drugs anymore anyway ...
 
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