Animals shouldn't have rights? Discuss...

Xenomage

Lord High ChillMaester
Another excuse to show myself up as a small minded inconsiderate jerk:

Who thinks animal rights equal our own and why?

Who thinks animal rights are less than ours and why?

Who thinks animals have rights exceeding ours, and why?

I reckon that we out-right them, and rightly so... but what do others think?
 

natacha_

Junior Members
They have equal rights, why shouldn't they?
I think that we should think more about what is best for their welfare because obviously their fate is in our hands, and we should be responsible to everything that lives on the earth with us. Taking advantage of another race, whether that be a human race or animal race (?ahah), is wrong, because that's using your power against something else just so that you can reep the benefits. Humans are losing their empathy, its our biggest downfall.

I just woke up, not feeling eloquent as you can see, and now i'm heading straight out to school.
xo
 

martin_e

Pantheistic Cyberneticist
Well I wouldn't give them electoral representation ...
 
D

dave arc-i

Guest
animals have the right not to taste nice - do they exercise it?
 

jamez_23

Blah
martin_e said:
Well I wouldn't give them electoral representation ...

he eh .... I wouldn't, but lets face it, the US managed to elect one!

 

CariFairy

Now Less Confused
We should be vastly humble of the survival skills and incredible array of species of life on this planet. To put yourself in a higher position show the main flaw of the human race. Most humans are weak and would barely survive a week without support from technology. The human brain is a law unto itsself but life on this planet is about much more than just people.

x
 

Xenomage

Lord High ChillMaester
CariFairy said:
We should be vastly humble of the survival skills and incredible array of species of life on this planet. To put yourself in a higher position show the main flaw of the human race. Most humans are weak and would barely survive a week without support from technology. The human brain is a law unto itsself but life on this planet is about much more than just people.

x

Surely we've out evolved the other species... Yeah, maybe we wouldn't survive long in the wild without technology, but then, that's our evolutionary advantage - our brains.

If the animal kingdom is in our hands, and it is our responsibility to protect them, then surely our protection is therefore more important (because how would we then protect them?)

I'm not trying to suggest that as we have the power to oppress animals, we should oppress them, but as far as our survival is concerned, the rights of animals are unimportant. You could argue that our survival is secure now, but it isn't really, we will only survive further by constant evolution...

We have as much right to be on this planet as any other animal, but it isn't always humans that are responsible for destroying a species, this happens naturally, and it's up to us to try and stop this, agreed, but that would involve a sacrifice of sorts from the animal kingdom, so that we can maintain control.....

I'm rambling, and I haven't secured my own thoughts in my own head yet, but yeah.... Do keep discussing...
 

badger

mustelid member
It's only my opinion, but too many people see animals from an anthropocentric viewpoint. THEY ARE NOT FURRY PEOPLE! (sadly) they would probably make better people than us. They do have a right to exist, wildlife especially, or evoltion will halt. We are heading for the next mass extinction, and it's all our fault. Without biodiversity we will also go the way of the do do. Furry friends and all. Unfortunately for us, micro-organisms rule the earth. Humans are not really evolving now, we are just living past our sell-by date with our clever brains and medication:@)

What sets us apart from animals is that we are capable of recognising 'self' and have consciousness, which gives us a great responsibility towards our environment and life on earth. Certainly animals suffer, and we must treat them 'humanely' Unfortunately, many people are not humane to mankind OR other animals. A lot of what makes us 'human' occurs through our development and culture. We are not physiologically different from cro-magnon man, something most people can observe in town on a friday/saturday night!!
 

CariFairy

Now Less Confused
Xenomage said:
Surely we've out evolved the other species... Yeah, maybe we wouldn't survive long in the wild without technology, but then, that's our evolutionary advantage - our brains.

Our brains mean nothing. Sure, we have the potential to be intelligent. But we do not even know if we are using our minds and bodies for what they are actually designed for. We used 10% of our brains. Whats the other 90% for? We have destroyed chance of any real "evolution" by doing what i consider as "devolving" into the ratrun of "society", from which none of us can ever escape.
Out-evolved?! Not at all. I think society is incredible but it is also hideously destructive. It is now at the point that humans are not changing - we are getting podgier, balder and more decrepid quicker than ever - the only thing evolving is technology.

Xenomage said:
If the animal kingdom is in our hands, and it is our responsibility to protect them, then surely our protection is therefore more important (because how would we then protect them?)

Its not about protection, its about destruction prevention or abstination. Only stopping the change that humans have inflicted on an already successful natural order with our "evolution"
Animals do not need humans. Imagine a world without animals.

Xenomage said:
I'm not trying to suggest that as we have the power to oppress animals, we should oppress them, but as far as our survival is concerned, the rights of animals are unimportant. You could argue that our survival is secure now, but it isn't really, we will only survive further by constant evolution...

Thats bullshit. Imho. Survival is NOT dependent on "evolution". As i said, the only "evolution" happening here is technological. Think of how much the world has changed in the last 3000 years compared to the Billions of years that we have evidence of this planet existing - dinosaurs - and look at what has happened in a mere 3000 years. Sea's full of shit. Non-Bio-Degradable crap everywhere. A vast, vast collection of humans. Guns. Nuclear power. Vastly and ever-continuously diminishing rainforests, wetlands, constant extintions of animals...

Xenomage said:
We have as much right to be on this planet as any other animal, but it isn't always humans that are responsible for destroying a species, this happens naturally, and it's up to us to try and stop this, agreed, but that would involve a sacrifice of sorts from the animal kingdom, so that we can maintain control.....

Okay, you are right. Maybe 1 species naturally peters out due to its unsuitablility to modern life. Sabre toothed tiger et al.... Compared to about 1000 species which humanity has destroyed through its so-called "evolution".

Rant rant rant. I feel quite strongly.

x
 

kunningtoerag

naut-psy-kik-humaon
Everything And Everyone Has A Right To Be On This Planet, Thats Why They/we Are Here... If We Abuse And Disagree, Then So Be It, We Are The Ruling Species And Alot Of What We Say Goes...animals Rights Are The Same As Our Own, Surely? Maybe The Animal Kingdom Has More Rights Than Us, As We Have Destroyed Alot Of What Was Never Ours To Destroy....our Destructive Nature And Superiority Is Our Down Fall...we Must Address This Issue Sooer Rather Than Later Or Face The Harsh Consiquences....no More Tigers, Bears Or Anything...four Legs Good Two Legs Bad......
 

Paramahansa

Banned
Seems a bit wrong to me, but then lots of things do

Maybe these beings who get rich out of testing on animals will be reborn into an animal in their future lives.....

:shrugs:
 
CariFairy said:
We should be vastly humble of the survival skills and incredible array of species of life on this planet. To put yourself in a higher position show the main flaw of the human race. Most humans are weak and would barely survive a week without support from technology. The human brain is a law unto itsself but life on this planet is about much more than just people.

x

WOOOOH!! Go Cari!

Why do animals have equal rights as us? Because were all designed to live in synergy with each other, except humans are greedy and always want more...and we have a craving for power. We may have evolved quicker, but unfortunately we havnt evolved along with the notion of treating other species with respect.

We feel its our God given right to treat animals like dirt yet when a person gets murdered its 'shock horror'. Bollocks is it! When an animal is killed for whatever reason, another animal has lost a relative and is grieving...but our heads are so far up our own f*cking arses that noone notices.

I cannot thank my parents enough for bringing me up as a vegetarian because even though its natural for us to eat meat, everyone abuses it and it makes me sick.

I could seriously go on forever with this but if anybody thinks that were better than other species and have the right to dictate their life, then just stay the hell away from me, because as far as Im concerned, ur not worth more than sh*t.
 

Xenomage

Lord High ChillMaester
Psychedelic Acid Fairy said:
...Because were all designed to live in synergy with each other, except humans are greedy and always want more...

Designed by who?

There is unbalance throughout nature, we're not so much "designed" to live in synergy with each other, it's more accurate to say we were "designed" to compete with each other. Humans don't really have to compete with other species at all, but our survival is still paramount.

I'm not trying to excuse the pathetic opinions of some people that as the most able species we have the right to inflict pointless cruelty on other beings of different species, and our own; but nevertheless, that is only natural...

Pointfull cruelty, well, that's a greyer issue...

Hopefully soon we will all realise that a balanced ecosystem is better for all concerned, yes.
 

CariFairy

Now Less Confused
Xenomage said:
Hopefully soon we will all realise that a balanced ecosystem is better for all concerned, yes.

Balance?

Like saying "Oh, well, since we build these cities and stuff, and destroyed millions of acres of natural ecosystem, fucked up the earths climate, pumped shit into the sea and killed entire species so we could wear nice clothes and eat mcdonalds, lets not be pointlessly cruel to animals, because then, its balanced!"

Any shadow of what could have been called "balance" was destroyed the minute more people were being born than dying in certain places, and animals were no longer in a position to pick off a few babies and old people to keep the food chain and populations on a level.

Its not about design, its about the intricate garden-of-eden which used to be spread all over this planet before humans started swallowing it all up for their staus symbols and massive houses. We are part of the disgusting royal-fucking-up-of-the-world. Nature is incredebly able to rejuvinate itself and undoubtedly will be able to heal to a certain level if humans disappeared, but extinct species do not just pop up again.

Like i said, its taken us only 3000 years to do a huge amount of very fucked up shit... i think maybe we will never see eye to eye on this mr edwin - i am forever the hypocrite in that i'm still here and enjoying my home comforts or whatever, but do not allow myself to believe that i am by any means deserving of this fact in any way shape or form x x x x
 

CariFairy

Now Less Confused
Xenomage said:
There is unbalance throughout nature, we're not so much "designed" to live in synergy with each other, it's more accurate to say we were "designed" to compete with each other.
What about the massive amount of herbivores? Do they start herbivore gangs to compete for leaves? Yes, survival of the fittest - humans being eternal cheaters.

Eating each other does not mean we do not live in compliment of each other. A simple food chain... Algae - eaten by miniscule bug - eaten by bat - staple diet of fox (as is rabbits)

edit - that didnt work at all forget my food chain idea

Okay that probably a load of shit but you can see how deleting entire species and destroying simple... wait your an intelligent man you know all this already, you just stubborn!!!

As am i, i guess x x x x x
 

Torsion Jim

PsyMusic Radio
im not being funny here but wot about plants n bacteria?? if it werent for them there wud be no oxygen in the atmosphere for anything to breathe.

people always say eating meat is murder, but eating plants is murder to.they are SO much more in touch with earth energies and have multiple senses that
we dont perceive.plants are far more complicated than any mammal alive today
 

CariFairy

Now Less Confused
Plants are vital in the survival of the planet but most plants need to be consumed or processed by some form of life to finish its purpose, ie seeds getting carried places, providing food for animals and therefore not over-growing and jeapordising the existance of other plants.

You are right in pointing out the importance of plants next to animals, but consuming each other is a part of what has caused life to exist - nothing can survive without some sort of sustanance.
 

Torsion Jim

PsyMusic Radio
exactly cari.thats why the meat is murder crew have it all wrong. nature is dark, things get eaten by other things, red in tooth n claw. its the humanist point of veiw that sucks. read 'straw dogs' by john gray.its great!!! most people cant handle the brutality of the natural law.......we are on an equal playing field alongside every other living thing in this universe.......jus cos we can philosophise does not make us better.jus cos we came up with the concept of rights doesnt mean we own that concept.equal roghts for humans, plants animals and prokaryotes too!!!!!
 

CariFairy

Now Less Confused
See i reckon if you breed an animal then kill it straight away seems a bit messed up - it never has a chance

Then i spose you could say thats like planting wheat

argh who knows, more thought is needed
 
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