Bush says anti-abortionists 'will prevail'

psylent

Senior Member
Messages
1,446
Reaction score
0
Location
Newmarket, Suffolk
Bush says anti-abortionists 'will prevail'

January 24, 2006 - 10:08AM




President George Bush today told opponents of abortion their views would eventually prevail and urged them to work to convince more Americans of "the rightness of our cause."

On the 33rd anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the landmark Supreme Court decision that established federal abortion rights, Bush addressed activists by telephone from Manhattan, Kansas, and called their goals noble.

"We, of course, seek common ground where possible," he said. "We're working to persuade more of our fellow Americans of the rightness of our cause, and this is a cause that appeals to the conscience of our citizens and is rooted in America's deepest principles - history tells us that with such a cause, we will prevail."

The rally was held to protest the 1973 decision, which opponents hope to overturn someday, especially now that Bush has named two justices to the Supreme Court - John Roberts, who replaced the late Chief Justice William Rehnquist, and Samuel Alito to replace retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

O'Connor has often been the swing vote on abortion and other social issues on the nine-member court.

Alito, whose confirmation by the Senate is expected soon, gave no clear statement on whether he would vote to overturn Roe if it came before the court, although he opposed abortion in a memo he wrote as a Reagan administration attorney two decades ago.

During his confirmation hearings, Alito reaffirmed his vow to respect legal precedent and noted the 1973 decision had been upheld repeatedly.

"You believe as I do that every human life has value, that the strong have a duty to protect the weak and that the self-evident truths of the Declaration of Independence apply to everyone, not just to those considered healthy or wanted or convenient," Bush told the anti-abortion marchers.

As anti-abortion activists gathered in Washington and elsewhere across the country, Bush headed for Kansas where he spoke about the war on terrorism. As he has in past years, the president phoned in his support rather than attend in person.

- Reuters
 

ChrisCabbage

Forum Member
Messages
10,188
Reaction score
57
Heard an interesting interview with a doctor who was asked to be an advisor to Bush on various medical scientific issues.

However, he had to go through a questionaire first with a government official to see where his political allegiances were.

When it became apparent that he wasn't anti-abortion, he was never contacted again.

Hmmm...
 
D

dave arc-i

Guest
soon it will be "war on abortion" - at that point the abortionists will know they have won
 

floatyhippyflower

Free spirit, lost soul.
Forum Supporter
Messages
8,597
Reaction score
3,211
Location
Kolob, in the twinkling of an eye.
Bush said:
"You believe as I do that every human life has value, that the strong have a duty to protect the weak and that the self-evident truths of the Declaration of Independence apply to everyone, not just to those considered healthy or wanted or convenient"
What a fucking cock. Tell that to Iraq or Afghanistan you greedy, self-righteous, murdering twat.
 

martin_e

Pantheistic Cyberneticist
Messages
9,057
Reaction score
7
Location
Living in a shed in Broadstairs
Sigh. Round and round, it was back in the early 90's that Bill Hicks came out with:

I'm not a girl, I'm a guy you know? But at the same time, I tell ya how you can solve this abortion issue right now. Ready? Those unwanted babies that single moms leave in alleys and in dumpsters? Leave about 12 of those on the steps of The Supreme Court. This is over. Like that. "You guys said we had to have them? Then you guys...FUCKING RAISE 'EM." "Raise 'em then, you fucking fucking raise 'em. YOU raise 'em. You said I had to have it? Then it's yours. Fuck. It's yours..Take it"

... and the debate just hasn't moved on at all out there!
 

psypeds

midnight joker
Messages
457
Reaction score
0
Location
Oxford
floatyhippyflower said:
What a fucking cock. Tell that to Iraq or Afghanistan you greedy, self-righteous, murdering twat.

or to the families of the deceased english troopers.:isad:
 

psylent

Senior Member
Messages
1,446
Reaction score
0
Location
Newmarket, Suffolk
I've just finished reading a book called Freakanomics, which is a pretty interesting read. In it, the writer who is an Economist talks about a period a few years ago when despite all the predictions that crime would skyrocket in the US, it inexplicably declined and you had all these different groups claiming it was as a result of their policy's etc. His opinion based on the statistics that he analysed? That it was in a large part due to the decision of Roe vs Wade that led to legalised abortion, which resulted in a lot less unwanted children being born, and 20 years later you have a massive drop in crime.

A really interesting alternative analysis in my opinion.
 

martin_e

Pantheistic Cyberneticist
Messages
9,057
Reaction score
7
Location
Living in a shed in Broadstairs
Somewhere in the US, not too far in the future ...

cyanide4.gif
 

tortoise

Psy-Judy
Messages
5,960
Reaction score
111
Location
Oxford
martin e said:
I'm not a girl, I'm a guy you know? But at the same time, I tell ya how you can solve this abortion issue right now. Ready? Those unwanted babies that single moms leave in alleys and in dumpsters? Leave about 12 of those on the steps of The Supreme Court. This is over. Like that. "You guys said we had to have them? Then you guys...FUCKING RAISE 'EM." "Raise 'em then, you fucking fucking raise 'em. YOU raise 'em. You said I had to have it? Then it's yours. Fuck. It's yours..Take it"

Yes, very interesting. I am a girl, and one who's had an abortion. It is something that haunts me a bit and actually I feel a bit like I'm coming out saying it in such a public place, what with my Catholic upbringing and that, although some people do in fact know, but not my parents so please don't tell them...oh no...I'm rambling...must be nerves

However

I really do feel that if you actually did do that, the number of childless couples who would rush forward and say "Yes, please give that baby to me, pleeeeeeeease" would be too many to count. Now, i realise asking someone to go through a pregnancy and a delivery and then give away their baby is a big, no huge, thing to ask, but there isn't one of those babies that wouldn't find a home. I do wonder, given that I now have the fucking stretch marks anyway, if maybe I should have had that child, and given it to someone who would really have loved it, and cared for it, and been thankful every day [it behaved nicely] rather than having it hacked to pieces inside me and chucked in a furnace.

ok, dramatic, and a tad guilt-ridden, but not inaccurate...
 

crikey

Junior Members
Messages
137
Reaction score
0
tortoise said:
Yes, very interesting. I am a girl, and one who's had an abortion. It is something that haunts me a bit and actually I feel a bit like I'm coming out saying it in such a public place, what with my Catholic upbringing and that, although some people do in fact know, but not my parents so please don't tell them...oh no...I'm rambling...must be nerves

However

I really do feel that if you actually did do that, the number of childless couples who would rush forward and say "Yes, please give that baby to me, pleeeeeeeease" would be too many to count. Now, i realise asking someone to go through a pregnancy and a delivery and then give away their baby is a big, no huge, thing to ask, but there isn't one of those babies that wouldn't find a home. I do wonder, given that I now have the fucking stretch marks anyway, if maybe I should have had that child, and given it to someone who would really have loved it, and cared for it, and been thankful every day [it behaved nicely] rather than having it hacked to pieces inside me and chucked in a furnace.

ok, dramatic, and a tad guilt-ridden, but not inaccurate...

Thanks for posting such an honest and amazing post tortoise. I cannot even begin to imagine what you must have gone through and I think those who make sweeping insensitive comments on this issue should listen to you. And you should definitely not beat yourself up about having made such a difficult decision.

I personally don't believe in pro choice or pro life dichotomies. I believe that abortion should be illegal but also that there are currently way too many abortions being performed in the UK today. It's strange that this thread has treated abortion as a purely political issue without discussing the ethics actually involved. Maybe a bigger female input into the thread would be helpful.
 

floatyhippyflower

Free spirit, lost soul.
Forum Supporter
Messages
8,597
Reaction score
3,211
Location
Kolob, in the twinkling of an eye.
crikey said:
Thanks for posting such an honest and amazing post tortoise.
Agreed. One of the most touching posts I have ever read.
What a lady.


I cannot even begin to imagine what you must have gone through and I think those who make sweeping insensitive comments on this issue should listen to you. And you should definitely not beat yourself up about having made such a difficult decision.
Agreed.

It's strange that this thread has treated abortion as a purely political issue without discussing the ethics actually involved.
This is where you and I part company slightly. The thread was started with a political slant, given that it was making a statement about Bush's stance on the issue and how he is using it to rally support in right-wing America. To my understanding anyway. I'll apologise right away if my comment was in any way offensive to those who have actually been through a termination but that's what I was so angry about; the hypocrisy of a man who has sanctioned the deaths of thousands of innocent people talking about protecting the weak and the sacredness of life. It boils my piss. Sorry.

Maybe a bigger female input into the thread would be helpful.
On the subject of termination from an ethical point of view, I'll offer my opinion as requested. I was responsible with birth control but fell pregnant anyway when I was twenty-two. I was the "1% of the 1%" to quote one midwife. Shit happens. I chose to go through with it eventually but if I had fallen pregnant six months earlier, a termination would have been a necessity for reasons I'd rather not go into here. A close friend of mine who found herself in a similar situation quite soon afterwards didn't go through with her pregnancy; watching her suffer was utterly gut-wrenching but she knew it was the right thing to do given the circumstances at the time.

To remove the option of a termination would force millions of women, like my friend, to go through an experience they are neither ready for nor want. That is wrong in my opinion. Having a baby - or two in my case - is an absolutely massive undertaking, physically, mentally and emotionally. In fact it is, without doubt, the most important decision you will ever make and most women who fall pregnant in less than ideal circumstances and/or who consider a termination will agonise over it before and after the fact. I hear what Tor says about adoptive couples and the fact that every baby would, in reality, find a home and parents. Nonetheless for me it's a question of weighing up the quality of the mother's life and the impact it would have with the rights of a foetus that hasn't the ability to live independently, doesn't have friends, family, a job, a whole life basically...Even if a woman goes through with a pregnancy to give her child up for adoption, the ramifications will be utterly life changing for her and something she might never get over. I'm in absolute awe of anyone who is that strong because I know I couldn't do it.

I don't mean to sound callous but until an unborn foetus is viable, then as far as I'm concerned it is an extension (sorry can't think of a better word) of the mother's body and as such she has the right to decide what to do with it. It isn't alive; it is being kept alive. Those who remain adamantly against choice are in effect saying "we would force you, a human being with affirmed and clear-cut rights in every other medical decision you would make for yourself, to go through an extremely difficult, emotional, painful and often risky nine months to delivery a child we think you should want irrespective of whether or not you are ready for it, and despite any impact it will have on your body and your life." What they are saying is "the unborn, non-viable foetus you carry is more important than you are." And I'm sorry but having been through pregnancy and childbirth, I cannot agree with that in any way, shape or form. If anything, I am more pro-choice for having been a mother these last seven years than I ever was when I didn't want to be one.
 

tortoise

Psy-Judy
Messages
5,960
Reaction score
111
Location
Oxford
I may be wrong but I think that crikey meant legal not "illegal", it's the "but also" that follows that makes me think that cos it just seems to make more sense that way.

Crikey?
 

martin_e

Pantheistic Cyberneticist
Messages
9,057
Reaction score
7
Location
Living in a shed in Broadstairs
In my years on this planet, I've had a lot of friends who have been in the position of having to decide about abortions. Some had them, some didn't, one even carried the baby of the man who raped her which is to my mind quite an astonishing sacrifice...
The one thing which has always tied their experiences together is that it's not a simple decision, it's not an easy moral question and every situation was wildly different.
My previous posts on this thread may have seemed offensively blunt, disinterested and frivolous - but really that's because I have very little time for the hard-core "Pro-Life" view which Bush et. al. are espousing at the moment.
There's no "this is right, this is wrong" in real life - there's a complex and sensitive mixture of morality, health and life issues for every woman facing that decision. Ultimately I think that only those involved can know what is right for them, or take responsibility for the decision (whether they later decide it's the right or wrong one). To blanketly assume that one's own moral stance is applicable to every situation is bigotted, short-sighted and ultimately cruel...
 
Top