Clean fuel sound systems

[Stuoolong]

Experience running a green gathering taught me that it is not beyond the realm of technology these days to run an outdoor sound system with solar, wind and/or bicycle power. I've seen relatively low-tech setups producing maybe 800 watt output on a calm, cloudy day. Two bike generators can produce maybe 300-400 watts, when pedalled most of the night.

Clearly, the costs involved in setting up these things, as well as the expertise, can be prohibitive, but I think we should strive towards it.

The other issue, of course, is "oomph!" We want fat, loud noise coming from those speakers and 800 watt output just aint good enough for a largeish party, but I reckon it's fine for, say, a hundred people in a marquee. What do you guys reckon?

 

[Plank!]

We need to tap into the national grid, make more use of that nice environmentaly friendly nuclear power

 

[grokit23]

In an ideal world I'd like to see all sound systems run using renewable power sources. Unfortunately this ain't such an ideal world and I demand lots of ooomph from sound systems... :?

I would like to know what the chances of being able to run small diesel generators on bio-diesel are like? *engineers/mechanics please respond*

I'm guessing this wouldn't be so hard to sort out for a party organisation as going all solar/wind/pedal powered and still being able to maintain a healthy power output to the amps etc...

 

[Technognome]

I think the solution is to fill a truck with submarine batteries which have been previously charge using 'green ellectricity'.

Then the lack of wind/ sun is of no concern.

PHLUR :sun:

 

[Stuoolong]

As far as I'm aware, any engine or generator that normally runs on diesel will run just as well on biodiesel with no modifications. Don't forget though that, although it is recycled fuel, it still produces toxic emissions. Good step forward though!

 

[Fushion Julz]

It is possible to have both...at a price...

I still have a mission to build a solar/wind powered 7.5Kw generating system. However, $$$s seem to be getting in the way! Batteries are seriously expensive...and heavy,necesitating a big(ger) truck to haul it all around in...

We currently have a compromise solution...Our big genny (37.5Kva) runs on LPG which is both cleaner and quieter than running an equivalent on diesel.

(Available for hire at cheap rates )

 

[Deleted member 735]

As far as I'm aware, any engine or generator that normally runs on diesel will run just as well on biodiesel with no modifications. Don't forget though that, although it is recycled fuel, it still produces toxic emissions. Good step forward though!

if your living in a hot country thats true. but here in old Blighty you gonna need a fuel heater to warm the oil to a combustable temperature before its burned. Does work tho

I find this attack on generators a miss led joke. How many of you have ever stepped into a plane.
i think that a single plane journey probably equates to about a billion generator hours of polution. So all you jet set psytrancers remember when ya on ya next pilgramage to Voov, Boom or whatever that it takes twice your weight in fuel just to get you into the air.
Lets get things in perspective people!!!!!! We wouldnt use that much fuel in a whole weekend powering a big 8k generator.

 

[Drat Mafia]

vegetable oil gennys would be nice. as would wind/solar but it would be a shame if a party had to be cancelled due to lack of sun/wind. it's a tricky situation because we need a lot of power and the technology to provide this is expensive. hmm, water powered genny, that would be nice. perhaps if a party is next to a fast flowing river a mill could be run to power the soundsystem hehe, ideal world...

 

[Jodha]

If you had your rig near falling water you could power it via hydro-electric power...

geothermal could be another alternative but then you have to dig big holes in the ground...

I like the idea of batteries, although battery technology could be better to create lighter and higher capacity batteries - this would have its own environmental effects due to the chemicals used in their construction and disposal when their life is over.

Similarly, a giant capacitor on wheels would be as effective if made right.

Hydrogen fuel cells? Not know much bout them, me, but have heard they are pretty funky.

I may be wrong on this but I'm sure I read somewhere that when planning a big party and need to choose system size, you allocate 15watts per person present, ie: 200 people = 3kW rig..? Am I right? Interested to know...

 

[JPsychodelicacy]

Where's Dan Photon Generator when you need him?

http://www.photongenerator.co.uk/

J.

 

[Ott^]

Photon Dan runs a 2.5k [ish] Mackie Active rig from a bank of 32 Elecsol batteries charged from sunlight.

Sounds lovely and runs for ages.

 

[Stuoolong]

I find this attack on generators a miss led joke. How many of you have ever stepped into a plane.
i think that a single plane journey probably equates to about a billion generator hours of polution. So all you jet set psytrancers remember when ya on ya next pilgramage to Voov, Boom or whatever that it takes twice your weight in fuel just to get you into the air.
Lets get things in perspective people!!!!!! We wouldnt use that much fuel in a whole weekend powering a big 8k generator.

Well that's a fair point, and I am guilty of stepping on a plane once in a while. If there had been a more environmentally sound means of travelling in the time allocated I would have used it, but I wasn't hardcore enough to cancel my journeys. Similarly, I wouldn't want to cancel a party just cos there isn't enough wind, but I'd like to move towards more sustainable ways of doing things. I guess it's all a balancing act. To be completely sustainable the parties wouldn't happen at all cos everyone drives to them. I'm really into cycling, and can't drive, so I cycle to parties if they're within 30 miles or so.

Hydrogen fuel cells? Not know much bout them, me, but have heard they are pretty funky.

In Iceland, they are running a lot of public transport using hydrogen fuel cells. They produce electricity with only water as an emmission. The only problem is that it takes a lot of energy to make the hydrogen in the first place. Bush confidently believes that oil power is the correct way to go about this.... :mad:
Of course, the real answer is sustainable sources. I'm assuming that it's possible to buy a hydrogen powered leccy generator and I know you can buy canisters of hydrogen, but it is possible to buy sustainably produced hydrogen? I guess instead, you can buy a hydrogen generating machine, I have no real idea of the cost but it's a box about 2 feet cubed and plugs into the wall. If you can instead plug it into a 12 volt array of batteries charged off solar then the job's a proverbial goodun. Anyone know any more details here?

Photon Dan runs a 2.5k [ish] Mackie Active rig from a bank of 32 Elecsol batteries charged from sunlight.

Sounds lovely and runs for ages.

:speaker: :jump: :jump:
I love his site!

 

[Ott^]

A 12 volt battery is a "hydrogen generating machine" - when you charge a 12 volt lead/acid accumulator [a wet cell battery] hydrogen is released.

Connecting up as yu suggest would be like being stranded on a desert island, finding a boat and chopping it up to make a raft.

Nanook has made the best point so far. Generators at parties contribute an immeasurably small amount to global pollution when compared to the cars and airliners we use to get to the party in the first place.

Worrying about the pollution emitted by a 3kw generator is like treating somebody for an ingrowing toenail when their jugular vein has ruptured.

Meanwhile, gratuitous use of analogy is like making love to a beautiful woman...

 

[norty303]

you allocate 15watts per person present, ie: 200 people = 3kW rig..? Am I right? Interested to know...

Unfortunately it's not as simple as that, as diffeent speakers and amps can produce wildly varying amounts of noise for a given input power. High efficiency drivers (99/100db@1w/m+ ) mounted in well designed boxes will give much higher spl's than less sensitive drivers in worse boxes for a given input signal. In many cases you'd need more than double the amp power to get the same measured output levels and then, regardless of how much power you put into them, would never achieve the same max spl of the better speakers. I'd say 3k would be a bit light for 200 people but it all depends on the kit used.

Certain types of amp are better suited to lighter input power too, thus making them more efficient on the power available

 

[Jodha]

Yeah, I thought that might come into it, would there be a rule of thumb similar to this but using spl rather than wattage I now wonder... :huh:

Although this is a little off topic - appologies!

 

[norty303]

I think a good rule of thumb is use as much as possible, you can always turn it down/unplug something

 

[Jodha]

Yeah...

not that helpful when you need to estimate the base level you should at least achieve like.

I will have to dig out that article and re-read it, I'll send over a copy when I find it

 

[Sturdy Pete]

people power!

i for one would be up for doing a stint on a bike to run the rig at a party, and i'm sure that people would be lining up to do it if the sound suddenly stopped 'cos there wasn't anyone powering it.. if you want music you power it! i remember a sound system at the woodcraft folk international camp, run off cycle power and moved around by cycle power - the way forward!

ok so maybe it wouldn't be that loud, but so what? at least the tunes wont be drowned out by the generator as soon as you get out of the area near the pa..

By running parties responsibly we can set an example - rather then being complete hypocrites and buring fuel for fun!. The planet is more important than one party, or any party!!

 

[Fushion Julz]

Cycle generators drive alternators and/or dynamos and charge 12V/24v battery packs.
The same applies as with solar/wind power in that the batteries are pigging heavy, very bulky and sodding expensive!

Solar and/or wind has the advantage of being free energy in as much as you don't burn calories to produce watts....

It is also possible, given the funds, to use a wind generator to provide parity power (the same watts input to your batteries as is drawn) for a 7.5Kw rig (enough for a decent dance party) with <15knots of wind (a decent breeze).

Given that the batteries will last for (say) 4hours with no charge input, then if there is a small amount of wind and/or sunlight, then it is possible to run for several hours or even days off renewable energy.
Regrettably, though, the initial cost is much higher that an equivalent fossil fuel powered genset and, although there are no fuel costs, the extra weight increases fuel consumption for transport and the batteries themselves have a finite life and take energy and resources to produce and dispose/recycle.

The positive aspect of using wind/solar energy is the silence of the generator and the non-toxic aspect of the emissions....

 

[klanga]

check this.

seen it it works.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/baka/rinky/technic.htm