Death Penalties - Are they ever justified?

CariFairy

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miszt said:
2) The costs of keeping someone alive in a jail are huge, why the hell should the rest of the country pay to do this? for a person who has no concern for human life, to the point where money becomes more important than life

Each case is different.

Every situation is different.

How much would it cost to have a jury overlook every single crime which involved a death and decide whether or not that person should live, followed by a possible appeal and jet another jury?

just to throw another thingy in the fire.

John, do you know anyone who has killed anyone?
 

trancetheory

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martin_e said:
I don't think it's naïve to ask how state-sponsored murder is different from murder for personal reasons. Surely the point of the justice system should be to protect people from immoral acts upon their person. Prison serves this purpose by isolating a criminal from society at large. Execution requires someone, somewhere down the line to murder another...

I'm sorry but I dont think executing a person is murder. simple as that.

(when done according to the conidtions I said above)

Prison doesnt work.
 

trancetheory

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CariFairy said:
Each case is different.

Every situation is different.

How much would it cost to have a jury overlook every single crime which involved a death and decide whether or not that person should live, followed by a possible appeal and jet another jury?

just to throw another thingy in the fire.

John, do you know anyone who has killed anyone?

I think the costs involved for decieding the situation are justified, the truth needs to be found out, otherwise mistakes can be made, and have been made in the past :ifrown:

No cari I havent...y?
 

trancetheory

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Full Lotus said:

I dont believe that is justified :ifrown: ....thatz actually really sad...

During her son's captivity, she has been unable to have any physical contact with him, only being allowed to see and speak to him through a glass partition.

But the Singapore government said on Thursday it would allow the two to hold hands during their final meeting, following a personal appeal by Australia's Prime Minister John Howard.

:ifrown:
 

CariFairy

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miszt said:
No cari I havent...y?

It can often lead to another point of view given that you have a very personal view, a snapshot of the life and what drives a killer to kill. It becomes evident that the one act of murder should not dictate that person in one act - a whole life of experiences needs to be taken into account.
 

trancetheory

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CariFairy said:
It can often lead to another point of view given that you have a very personal view, a snapshot of the life and what drives a killer to kill. It becomes evident that the one act of murder should not dictate that person in one act - a whole life of experiences needs to be taken into account.

Yes I totaly agree, but I'm not saying that murder for the sake of murder should be punished with death, thats a diffrent and complex question.

I believe murder for matirial gain, is where the death penalty should lie, plus a few other nasty crimes that I mentioned before
 

jamez_23

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I think th crux is that appeal is part of the Justice system.

You cant appeal when you are dead ....
 

lettis

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personally i dont think the death penalty is a justifiable in in a post fordist society (for want of a better term) it really would be going back to the 17th century criminal justice system where the state focused its powers on controlling us through physcal retribution.

we are meant to have a restorative form of justice in our tyoeof society and the dealth penalty is based entirely around revenge. its a knee jerk reaction based on emotional impulse. it does not reduce crime in fact it could be argued that it intensifies it.

surely the only way to really reduce crime would be to get rid of some of the laws we have and to decentralise the police and judicial system. every one in society should have a role to play in reducing crime. i think the academic phrase being banded about at the mo is holistic justice, which is an idea that communities have an active role in crime provention and the creation and implementation of laws. however it would be so hard to bring into force because the culture with in our society that seesm to be 'it aint got anything to do with me guv' also this would mean taking some if the power away from the police and judicial system which just aint gonna happen!

all in all its a very emtive and complicated area that rarley gets a rational debate due to the prconcieved idea that all criminals are in some way sub-human which imo is siimply wrong, nieve and highly arrogant! crime goes on every where all the time, we have had a centralised criminal justice system since the 19th century and all that it has achieved is the criminalisation of more and more people. if you were to bring back the death penalty then this would just antagonise an already explosive situation!
 

lettis

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miszt said:
agreed, the death penalty should only be issued under 100% certain evidence

buit surley we can never be 100% certain of anything! especially in regards to criminality and blame!:ismile:
 
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dave arc-i

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i did think from the first post this was related to the australian in singapore - i go along with monkey do's thinking on this. darwinian award candidate.... death penalty for possession of more than 15grams of heroin and the guy decides to smuggle 400! - he only has himself to blame for being so so stupid

singapore has some the harshest laws and penaltys in the world but it isnt that an unpleasant place to be unlike perhaps some parts of the UK - would i like it to be like that here - no way

death penalty - certainly in the case of kiddie sex killers no question about it (subject to 100% irrefutable evidence of guilt - dna, physical evidence etc)
 

lettis

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dave arc-i said:
i did think from the first post this was related to the australian in singapore )


oops didnt read the link, sorry if my psuedo intellectual blathering was completley off the mark!:iconfused :ismile:
 

turkeyphant

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miszt said:
Absolutly agree, but you can sometimes be sure...CCTV, Witness's and Forensics can make the evidence 100%, of course if the evidence is not 100% then the death penality is not justified

How many times have people got it wrong/been denied the opportunity to give evidence/been corrupt/hidden evidence/etc. etc. ?

Don't tell me forensics are infallible and you can be certain about someone's identity from a grainy CCTV image at five second intervals... If there's even the smallest chance of killing one innocent (there always will be) count me out of it.

You can never ever be 100% sure.
 
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paranoidandroid

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Anybody know somebody who has been brutaly murdered?? If you do anad still think the death penalty is wrong then fair enough, you try and tell that to some people I know who have had to go through it, they would seriously disagree with you.
 

CariFairy

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Yes i have known someone who was murdered.

and no, i still do not advocate the death penalty. Its an escape.
 
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paranoidandroid

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well being honest here if somebody hurt a memeber of famaily they wouldn't make it to court to have the sentance passed, comming from South Africa where voilence is a daily part of life and people who once thought it wrong to have the death penalty are now potesting to have it reinstated. I belive in an eye for an eye and you can feed me the line 2 wrongs don't make a right, which is fair but I say if the bastid killed nuke his ass but you are entitled to your opinion and if you see fit to let him live so be it. I think they should let the famaily decide if he lives or dies. See how many people are saved?? I doubt many.
 
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