Delay plugin with swing???

ichabod

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Hi,
Does anyone know of a delay plugin which can be set to swing in a similar way to the Cubase groove quantise?
Have been doing a track with swing on the 16th notes which means that when I use delay I can't use 16th note delay or dotted 8th note delay which is pretty annoying.....


Cheers
Dan
 
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makdaddy

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surely if your notes are in swing then the delay effect will be of swung(!) notes as opposed to the delay effect locking back down to straight 16ths or whatever increment your delay is set to.
 

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happy juice
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no when swing is applied every other note is out of time by a certain amount, so a 1/16th or 3/16th etc. delay will be laying normal timed notes on top of out of time notes and vice versa. unfortunately the delay line does not think of the signal passing through it in terms of notes, its just a stream of audio that it outputs 3/16ths or whatever behind the input. so unles you find a delay plugin which has somehow worked out a way round that then youll just have to make do. if the sound youre using it on has slowish attack then it shouldnt matter too much, if it has fast attack then you'll have to turn down the send to the delay a bit.

hope that helps :Smile3:
 

ichabod

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Is this a solution?:

Use two delay lines, each set at half of the required rate and given start offsets so that one delay line produces the 'on the beat notes' while the other produces the alternate 'behind the beat' notes.
 

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happy juice
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hmmm i can see what your suggesting but having a little difficulty getting my head around whether it would work or not. how would you offset the second delay line?

well, only one way to find out if its workable, and youve got me intrigued now so i will work on it as well. let me know if you manage to make it work...
 

fuzzikitten

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Double_Helix said:
how would you offset the second delay line?

QUOTE]

Couldn't you have a duplicate of the track in question, offset by the appropriate amount? Then the second delay line would be offset by that amount.
 

jamez_23

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I think there is an offest amount to tweak in the tape delay in logic ? could be wrong - at work cannot check !!!
 
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makdaddy

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jamez_23 said:
I think there is an offest amount to tweak in the tape delay in logic ? could be wrong - at work cannot check !!!
yeah your right james but its more of a control for the delay to stray out of time emulating a true tape delay i thinkk
 

ichabod

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I can't remember very well but thought that the Waves multitap let you set a start offset? What about the basic cubase multitap? I'll have a look when I get home... Otherwise... anyone up for hacking the code of an open source delay vst to add the controls!
 

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happy juice
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right ive just had a go at it. i cant use logic at home so i used the Voxengo Tempo Delay (clicky its near the bottom of the page) and ive come to the conclusion that no matter what you do with the delay, you have to split up the in-time notes and the out-of-time notes or they will all still be going through the same process. the only way i managed to do it was to:

1 - write the midi part with the swing
2 - duplicate the track
3 - remove every out-of-time note from the first track and every in-time note from the secrond track
4 - send each tracks output to a seperate delay
5 - set each delay line to the desired delay time (eg 3/16th) then offset the one for the on-time notes slightly forward with the initial delay setting (for the clip i set it to 106%) and the one for the out of time notes slightly back (i used 95%). to get it right listen to both tracks at the same time but mute one of the delays.
unfortunately you still have to use a low feedback setting because this technique will only line up the first reflection of each delay with the subsequent swung or unswung note, but keep working on this cos im sure there will be a better way than this one of doing it :Smile3:

this is as close as i could get it, at 50% swing with short plinky notes to make it easier to hear: swing delay test
 

ichabod

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mmm have just thought a bit more about it and come to the conclusion that my method will not work. bah.

It will successfully produce the swing effect but only relative to any sound that goes through it - the swing will not necessarily be in time with the swing on the rest of the track! I think this may be unsolvable except in the case of individualt drum hits which fall on the 'in time note' .

When using swing in a track you effectively have non-linear time... the only way I can think of doing it would be to hand program the delay in MIDI (or audio) - maybe this is the best solution?
 
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makdaddy

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..or ... record the delay / recycle it / place it back in your track in a sampler with imported recycle file then apply the swing/groove to the midi notes imported onto your track by the recycle file

a possibility?
 

Faction

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Waves multitap delay allows you to set precise timings for each tap so you can set up whatever delays you like (although you'll probably need to do it by ms rather than bpm to get the effect you want). There is also a rather fine VST delay plugin (two, actually) that emulates the Logic delay pretty well (well, well enough for me, anyway)... you can find them here (scroll down and look for 'Analogic Delay' and 'Bionic Delay'. These are currently my delay-lines of choice. Mr. Interruptor also does a tape delay that is absolutely wicked.
 

Rorymonster

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Put the echo on a bus and then use a sample delay to line it back up with the beats that you want. Logic's sample delay will only let you work with positive adjustment (i.e. + x amount of ms) but you can push it back to the next beat. I think it is also possible to find a sample delay effect that has a look forward function and can thus do negative sample delay.
Otherwise bounce a track down with no swing, send that through the delay bus and mute the source. This way is probable easier.
 

Speakafreaka

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Spektral Delay is worth ago, as the delay time really flexible and also you can modulate it via the programs LFO. I'd have to say, you almost certainly won't get any convential delay effect out of it easily though, and the interface has it's fair share of problems.

On the page that Colin Reccomends, at the bottom, you will find Echomania which is my general delay of choice, interestingly, the delays which it thinks are in time are actually slightly off kilter, but in a good way. Very Pink Floyd.

I'd have to say the nudged forward exported wet only audio signal sounds like the easiest way to do this though
 

Fromem_Ory

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Hey guys. Really old thread and really old forum member - but found this thread on Google.

I think I've found a happy compromise for this problem. The awesome Swing groove, and the Trancer's favourite Dotted Delay - surely they can play happy together!

I'm currently running this delay on an aux send channel in Cubase. The chain is Ping Pong delay in Cubase, set to dotted 1/8th, mix set to 100% of course. After that I've set up an LFOTool. The 'Rate' is set to 1/8th of a bar. So it's going to be cycling on and off the beat which is affected by the swing. In the main graph of the LFOTool, I've set the volume on full for the first 16th, then I've set a quick dip to zero volume at the beginning of the next 16th (the second half of the graph). This dip curves back up to full volume pretty quickly (within a 64th), so in essence there's just a volume duck on the swung hits between downbeat and offbeat. When the normal quantize delays hit here, you won't hear 'em til the volume swoops back up.

Sure, the attacks on these hits are softened somewhat, but in practice it works pretty well. Hope it helps!

Alex
 

Danalogue

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SoundToys 'Echo Boy' delay has a Swing setting plus a Rushin/Draggin setting.
 

nab

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Or if it's a triggered synth or sample you're adding effects to, just copy over a midi region and create midi note delays with copied notes at lower velocities. If you copy and paste with a smart function enabled in your daw then you shuld be able to maintain the midi timing. You can do this in logic.

Possibly a bit of a phaff and you would'nt want to do it too often but it would allow you to be really precise.
 
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