Fahrenheit 911. We let Blair and Bush get away with it

[beyondmirrors]

Dear psy forum members

I've just watched Fahrenheit 911 and the eveidence is there that there is more to 9-11 than meets the eye.

Why did the US Gov fly out the family of the prime suspect?

Why did the US Gov want to invade Iraq?

What's it all about.

The main thing


MONEY

Please watch this film if nothing else.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596/

Oh and check this out

"The Power of Nightmares"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430484/

 

[mr_cool]

there's as much bullshit in the anti-war propeganda as there is in the pro stuff. michael moore is a shit stirring twat imho

 

[grokit23]

Okay guys, I take back what I said yesterday, maybe this is that frog again.

 

[beyondmirrors]

Sorry guys I am not PlanetFrog. I do know him and he is a good friend but I am not him.


All the best

 

[Sturdy Pete]

have to say i though farenheit 911 was a pile of poo. Having read Micheal Moore's books previously (and with a basic knowledge of propaganda techniques) it was easy to see what it was - lots of things strung together to make bush look bad, rather than a thorough investigation in to what actually was going on. It was quite a dissapointment to see him using the techniques he berates others for... pot calling the kettle black that is..

MM's books are much better - all properly referenced etc so you can check what he's saying, and often with an actual point to make!

hmmm... i'm sure *i* had a point to make. oh well

 

[paranoidandroid]

Dear psy forum members

I've just watched Fahrenheit 911 and the eveidence is there that there is more to 9-11 than meets the eye.

Why did the US Gov fly out the family of the prime suspect?

Why did the US Gov want to invade Iraq?

What's it all about.

The main thing


MONEY

Please watch this film if nothing else.


blah blah blah.......blah blah blah blah.......propoganda works both ways and how much money did MR Moore make off his film??? Make up your own mind, don't let somebody con you in to making it up. A couple of well strung clips and me oh my what do you have something that looks credable and if you take what he left out and string thos together, a different conclusion? Don't be a sheep or even worse a muppet

 

[Squagnut]

"Dear psy forum members" is a bit redundant, beyondmirrors. I thought you were a psyforum member too? Who else do you hope to address here besides psyforum members? I hope you get the general message that your flavour of propaganda - while it may be entertaining - tastes no better than any other.

 

[beyondmirrors]

"Dear psy forum members" is a bit redundant, beyondmirrors. I thought you were a psyforum member too? Who else do you hope to address here besides psyforum members?

Hey dude, chill out.

It was my first post and I was trying to be polite. I shall try to start any future posts with "Dear all" Hows that?

"I hope you get the general message that your flavour of propaganda - while it may be entertaining - tastes no better than any other."

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. You have a choice, if you believe in "Free Will" that is, or are you a "Determinist" that believes all our actions are pre-determind.

I believe that if you know or believe in something different to the mainstream then you should say something about it. Thats is Democracy, freedom of speach is it not?

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-Noam Chomsky

oh and another one I quite like

“Naturally the common people don’t want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.â€

I'll reveal who said that on New Years day. Answers on a post card or personal message to Beyond Mirrors. All the best BM:ikiss:

 

[Squagnut]

:ilol: Well, if you don't like my posts, don't read them! I was echoing the sentiments expressed that MM, whose heart is doubtless in the right place, is just as much a propagandist as Coulter or Limbaugh. I'm not attempting to silence you, and I have no idea where you get the impression that I am. I was simply disagreeing. Please learn the difference. The topic is MM, etc., not me or Goering.

 

[Ott^]

Oh Jesus - another proselytizing sixth-form Noam Chomsky-quoting David Icke disciple who thinks he's just discovered the secrets of the world.

I'll reveal who said that on New Years day. Answers on a post card or personal message to Beyond Mirrors.

That fucking Hermann Goering quote is becoming a bit threadbare now. Maybe you could really show us and paste up the one by Hitler that goes;

The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.

 

[beyondmirrors]

The prize for the winners

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

Quote:
The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.
Very true

It was this "I hope you get the general message that your flavour of propaganda - while it may be entertaining - tastes no better than any other." that made me feel like you wanted to silence me. I'm glad you don't.

"Oh Jesus - another proselytizing sixth-form Noam Chomsky-quoting David Icke disciple who thinks he's just discovered the secrets of the world." I've read Icke, Chomsky, Marx, Barthes, Gramsci, Hall, and many others. I haven't discovered the secrets of the world but I have discovered some interesting things that the BBC, etc don''t talk about to often. Hegemony is an interesting concept along with Ideology.

When I discover something I like to share. Sorry:iredface:

 

[beyondmirrors]

I hope you don't think im just following Icke. There are so many interesting people out there other than David Icke. The lizards are fun. A bit like Freud in Psychology. Interesting ideas and a bit of fun.:ikiss:

 

[Ott^]

When I discover something I like to share. Sorry:iredface:

Don't apologise. Its not the sharing anyone objects to - its the manner in which you do it.


To show up out of nowhere and let loose with the large type and Chomsky quotes as if you are privy to some kind of new and dangerous knowledge is a little patronising to those of us who have our eyes open and gather our own information.

That was the mistake your friend Planetfrog made, and whilst the enthusiasm of youth can be quite touching when it is tempered with humility, to those of us who have been on the planet long enough to spot a zealot from two miles away it can be irritating in the extreme.

By all means share your information, but please be prepared to meet alternative viewpoints along the way, and please don't make the common mistake of thinking big letters = persuasive message.


And be careful with those Nazi quotes - Godwins Law *click* was coined for a reason.

 

[beyondmirrors]

:drinking:


Thank you. Constructive feed back is cool.

I shall work on my style.

I am rather new so bare with me.

All the best

BM

 

[beyondmirrors]

P.S Thank you for the Godwin's law info.

 

[JPsychodelicacy]

We is a terrible term to use in this instance.

Media in the USA is a private entity that serves the interests of its owners - it was during the Reagan Administration of the '80s that the Fairness Doctrine was abolished, allowing the Golden Rule (He who has the gold makes the rules) to apply over there, as it has always been applied over here.

The attacks of September 11th and Iraq were never connected until the current US Administration* decided to try to tie the two things together.

As far as Iraq goes, of pretty much all the people I know, we did everything that was legally within our power to tell them not to. We wrote letters, we emailed MPs - and knowing full well that such decisions are well out of our hands we marched. I suspected it wouldn't make a spit of difference, but I marched anyway and so did many millions of other people across the globe.

They called it a 'focus group'.

They went to war anyway.

My friend's fiancee is dead because of it.

This is personal.

J.

[* Current US Administration made up out of people that have lots of money involved in weapons and private logistics firms, all of whom have had a significant cash injection since war was declared, oh - and were all Reagan era staffers too.]

 

[Squagnut]

Ok, if this is just a bit of fun and not something I need take seriously, then go at it full steam ahead. But please bear in mind, BM, that so far you've not said much beyond establishing your right to say anything at all. Also, bear in mind that MM has already been discovered, poked, prodded, examined, and the verdict has long been "(arguably) Entertaining Propaganda". He is not essential viewing.

 

[beyondmirrors]

Very true. "We" is a dreadful term to use. I let them get away with it as I was on the fence during the Iraq war. So I have blood on my hands.

"My friend's fiancee is dead because of it." I'm sorry to hear that has happened.

JPsychodelicacy thank you for your post.

All the best

BM

 

[beyondmirrors]

"Ok, if this is just a bit of fun and not something I need take seriously, then go at it full steam ahead. But please bear in mind, BM, that so far you've not said much beyond establishing your right to say anything at all.

True

"Also, bear in mind that MM has already been discovered, poked, prodded, examined, and the verdict has long been "(arguably) Entertaining Propaganda". He is not essential viewing."

No Michael Moore is not essential viewing but his film and his book does show some interesting tit bits of info.

Michael Moore is a strange character that I cannot totally figure out, he was attacked by the Right in the states due to his Bush bashing and his style (which is consistant with his other work) and Alex Jones part of (I'm not sure if extreme left) or the left or some where out there that is not quite the right showed Michael Moore to be a poser. Film industry friends have found Michael Moore to be rude. So I am not totally with this guy. My original post was a reaction to the footage of Rumsfeld, Powel and Rice saying in 2001 that Sadam posed no threat to the USA and then in 2003 they changed their tune. I was upset that the US Government flew the Bin Laden Family out of the USA before the FBI could ask them some questions. Thats what got me in a mood and thus inspired my original rant. I will try and try to breath and count to 10 before starting any posts.

Books I've found interesting on this subject

Al-Qaeda by Jason Burke
Spies lies and whistleblowers by Annie Machaon
The New Pearl Harbour- David Ray Griffen
The Grand chessboard by Zbignew Brezinski
The Choice by Zbignew Brezinski
911 Revealed by Ian Henshall (A very intersting guy)
Inside Job by Jim Marrs

along with the Northwoods document.

All this makes me believe there is more to the 9-11/ War on terror than meets the eye.

I've also been looking into theories on Hegemony and Ideology. It's all an iteresting soup of info. Well at least for me.:ismile: (I can't speak for anyone else.)

 

[beyondmirrors]

Oh one last though


"entertaining propaganda" I remember all the debates about Farenheit 911 when it came out. Everyone was going on about it being "Propaganda" like this was the first time such a thing had occured since WWII. But I asked all those people what about the Propaganda we are subject to each day? The majority of people believe that Osama Bin Laden and his "Al-Qaeda" were responsible for 911 and that we should hunt him and them down for it. But what if 9-11 was an inside job. What does that mean? It's like the Iraq war, we now know the WMD argument to be a lie, hell David Kelly died over this issue and no one is really out there like they were when Fahrenheit 911 came out saying oh it was propaganda, we were lied too. Why?

Sorry that bit does get to me, the propaganda business. That was a rant.