Full out war- how long have we got?

how long if atall to full out war?


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RobAC

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Am I the only one scared of the looming chance of full out war?? I don't think i'm just paranoid i think that alot of people probally share this thought, where is that part of chinas income going? it's not all reaching the people and it's not all going to their infastructure. wheres all the scrap metal they're buying going? it can't all be on cars? is iran really only building nucular reactors? why is bush still spending more on weapons than education? will he call a draft?...... and so on

well if it happens how long?
 

rcain

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the world is always at war....and everyone is a casualty....compassion fatigue goes unnoticed
 

Goz

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Sounds very similar to the fears of the 50s ... And they amounted to ... f**k all.

Remember kids ... Duck and Cover! :Wink3:
 

ChrisCabbage

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USA is the big worry for me.

If they'd stop claiming the moral high-ground while threatening military action against anyone they don't particularly like, we'd be a lot better off IMO.

The worry is that they suddenly get deprived of their oil supply. That'll be one hell of a cold-turkey experience!
 

jackus

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Purusha said:
USA is the big worry for me.

If they'd stop claiming the moral high-ground while threatening military action against anyone they don't particularly like, we'd be a lot better off IMO.

The worry is that they suddenly get deprived of their oil supply. That'll be one hell of a cold-turkey experience!
Or their drugs!

jacks
 

Kickstart

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Be more interesting what happens with Saudi Arabia.

The USA views Saudi as a friend in the region, but much of the population does not like the USA. And the grip of the Saudi royal family will surely suffer with the recent death of King Fahd.

It could get nasty anytime, anywhere.

All the best

Keith
 

JPsychodelicacy

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Saudi will be business as usual - remember King (formerly Crown Prince) Abdullah's been effectively running the place for the last decade.

I think that yet another front in TWAT would cause a schism in the US, to be honest. They simply can't do it without re-instituting the draft, and that would cause internal panic.

We rode out the '80s... I really hope we can ride this out too.

J.
 

Barclay (Dark Angel)

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This is a subject that's taxed my mind for some time now. Inevitably, the first question is, define a war.

Most people think of a war in terms of World Wars, or "Total War" - big military engagements, civilian population fully involved. Clearly that's not the case right now. However, we are involved in war, and it has started to impact on the UK mainland.

The big question is, will it escalate, and if so, to what extent.

A lot depends on what the USA do in the future. Right now it seems the neo-cons star is fading. Bush isn't doing too well in opinion polls. The population is seeing a lot of pain for no gain, and the "war on terror" has stagnated. (It was always going to be so. Bush isn't serious about combating terrorism.) So, for a while we'll see a bit of a lull. Sure, people will continue dying horribly, and terror attacks will still occur, but it will be at a relatively low level. We may even see the USA withdrawing from places like Afghanistan, though I think that's a very remote possibility. (It's far too important strategically.)

Which brings me neatly onto the real issue. Oil...

We all know it's running out, and that the huge emerging economies such as India and China will need vast quantities of the stuff. We also know that people and governments have been burying their heads in the sand, refusing to acknowledge the problem. There is no adequate substitute for it in sight. Even massive investment and building in nuclear power looks as though it'll be too late.

So where does that leave us? It means billions of people will finds themselves without the basics - water, food, shelter, medication. In the States, people will believe in their superiority (morally, economically and militarily), and will seek to protect their position. The gap between the rich and the poor will widen to the point where revolution becomes inevitable.

(Previously this model would only have applied to individual countries. It's measurable. If the gap's too big, unrest inevitably follows. However, the old model no longer applies. The world is shrinking, and the global economy rules.)

It's going to take a seismic shift in the way the world is run to make enough difference to avoid the greatest tragedies occuring, and the problem for me is that I don't see *any* (let alone those in the States) world leader capable of making it happen.

So, in my view, we're in for an extended period of great unrest. War (which will be unlike any previous conflict), will be a permanent feature of our lives. Freedom will be a long forgotten dream, and shortages of basic essentials the order of the day. Everybody will be directly affected, one way or another, because everyone will be involved.

Which all leaves me feeling pretty depressed. I don't see any other scenario as likely as the one I've just described. If we're *very* lucky it'll all sort itself out in the end, but in the meantime the suffering and death could be on a scale never seen before, and if we don't get a grip on environmental issues it's going to be even worse.

We're mobilising awareness far too late, and far too little. The world's never seen any issues as directly threatening as these. We're woefully inadequately equiped to deal with them. It's up to everyone on the planet to do whatever we can about it, but I fear even that won't be enough...

Hugs,

Barclay (miserable, doom preaching old git ;-) )
 

TranceVisuals

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Everything is okay, everything is under control.

Do not panic....

World peace version 3.0 (Freeware) is being implemented, as an intermediate
stage to Civilisation version 2.1 (Anarcho-syndacistware).

Really folks there is nothing to worry about, it's all being taken care of, sit back,
lit up another one, and enjoy the ride.....

(Those folks who are off the ride please either queue up again or report to Reality
Consensus Control for immediate assignment).
 

boinktastik

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Barclay....... on the oil issue..... do you believe that rising oil prices could significantly contribute to the alleviation of our dependancy on oil?

Surely as oil becomes increasingly scarce and fought over, alternative energy sources and technologies that are currently viewed as prohibatively expensive will become far more viable?

The effect will also be magnified by legislation that is currently being pushed through by the EU

In January 2006 the European Buildings Directive will take effect in the UK..... I personally believe that some of its measures such as the implementation of Energy Performance Certificates will magnify the rise in demand for energy efficient technologies driven by rising energy prices.

(for info on the EPBD click here http://www.diag.org.uk/)
 

TranceVisuals

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The whole economy, capitalist system works by cause an artifical shortage of
resources, or more accurately commodities, to inflate the price to extort at greater
profit out of the consumers. I.e. to keep them working at the means of capital, rather
than owning the capital itself. These precious commodities are infact commonly available
natural products that they create whole systems that are the antithesis of the free
market to basically get us to do what they want... Look shiny baubles people, all
pretty and they will get you laid..
Wake up you are the proletriat, you have nothing to lose, but the chains of wage
slavery.
 

boinktastik

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yodhe said:
The whole economy, capitalist system works by cause an artifical shortage of
resources, or more accurately commodities, to inflate the price to extort at greater
profit out of the consumers. I.e. to keep them working at the means of capital, rather
than owning the capital itself. These precious commodities are infact commonly available
natural products that they create whole systems that are the antithesis of the free
market to basically get us to do what they want... Look shiny baubles people, all
pretty and they will get you laid..
Wake up you are the proletriat, you have nothing to lose, but the chains of wage
slavery.
I agree with you on the wrongs of the capitalist system and the need to awaken the proletariat to its ills.

But (and yes I'm taking your comment out of context!) unless urgent and (most importantly) effective and efficient action on the issue of energy efficiency and use, the global community has everything to loose.

The masses will not be won over by your argument because they will adversly react to your attack on what they hold dear.

We can slowly and progressivly work towards a world in which your ideals are the norm but we mustnt let our ideals distract us from the pressing issue: what can be done right now to end our society's dependancy on fossil fuels?
 

TranceVisuals

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I am finding total consensus with "the masses" actually.
The individuals I do get the wonderful opportunity to converse with say
"Go for it. About bloody time!"
 

ChrisCabbage

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You might be surprised to hear that the oil situation and environmental impact of its use is hammered home nearly every day on the news over here (breakfast news especially).

That's something *very* new - I haven't seen it before.

You get regular articles on how people are starting to use BioDiesel and are going to work on push-bikes etc.

Economists are pointing out that people have enough *stuff* and you can't continue to sell them more crap.

Maybe, just maybe someone's woken up and smelled the coffee!?

Fingers crossed.
 

boinktastik

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Good.....it means that there is hope!..... but in my experience there is one reaction to my ideals and another when trying to persuade them to adopt a way of life that is a little less comfortable!
 

ChrisCabbage

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Of course, it's a result of (what they consider to be) the high oil prices, but hey - if it has the right effect...
 

boinktastik

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Spot on Purusha...... hopefully its not a passing phase.

There is also a burgoning popularity in farmers markets and fair trade products etc....... were begging to reject the destruction of our communities and health by the likes of Tesco's!
 
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