How much control will we allow them to have???

kunningtoerag

naut-psy-kik-humaon
After watching the movie AEONFLUX , i wondered about how much control we will allow the system to have over our daily lives??? Is it possible to live a totally self sustained lifestyle today, in this country, and if so, how??? Surley we rely on the state to provide much of the things we take for granted, shops, roads, water, transport, etc, and to totally opt out is becoming more and more difficult as time goes on.
I dont want to be a stick in the mud, but from where i am sitting i cant see a sustainable future for any of us, due to the mass re-education needed to help people understand the problems we face in the near future.
 

Lazytom

imperialist running-dog
...isnt "re-education" a bit of a loaded phrase...? as in "you are a traitor to the motherland and you will be sent to Siberia for political re-education"...
 

kunningtoerag

naut-psy-kik-humaon
sorry Tom, maybe i meant un-education, thanx for pointing that out thou dude, did u see the movie that inspired my question?????
 

Lazytom

imperialist running-dog
kunningtoerag said:
unthink, undo, unlearn, and rehash.... is that better, and why siberia????????????

... just being anal :Smile3:

Siberia = where undesirables were sent by the soviet regime... like in Gulag Archepelago by Solzhenitsyn...

haven't seen the movie... any good?
 

kunningtoerag

naut-psy-kik-humaon
very sci fi , totally tec, and scary due to its relavance to the real world, check it out, i saw it on dvd but i bet its better at the cinema.
 

iroboy

Junior Members
CariFairy said:
i agree its a shame. its not possible to live a life for yourself - how silly is that

what a pathetic dependence you all must live then!

why cant you live your own life? if the government starts taking too much power...as it is in the UK now..then overthrow and resist it. The roads will still run, the water will still flow, the electricity will generate...private companies own everything and as long as you pay them they pipe their service to you


governments want more and more control and the illusion they sell you that they are there to protect you from the harsh bad reality of existence like terrorism and disease is all a scam.

That scam is what perpetuates their power...and the more they sell that belief to you the more you become less free by accepting and believing it

wake up or live as a sheep
 

Goran

Forum Member
That was in reference to your last post, not Aeon Flux. However, since you mentioned the matrix I'll leave this thread happy in the knowledge that you, at least, are not living a pathetic dependence. The world is safe as long as we have you...
 

psibaduh

sploosh
i can see anger brewing in the depths of the Forum's eyes...

*diffuses situation by throwing special treats out to everyone*

now, everyone just take their medicine and relax


an interestingly Lockean notion of resistance against the sovreign power has just arisen...

but should we really be concerning ourselves with revolution and resistance? no i dont think so, it is simply not reliable, viable or justifiable. so to dwell on it often leads to an attachment to the romanticism of being the 'rebel' and fighter of oppression

most importantly, i think this sentiment is largely irrelevant because it is no longer clear who the sole sovereign power is in Western capitalist countries. is it the government? or is the government driven by a shadow force far more disturbing. something faceless, almost impreceptible. moveable capital and wealth. and if you deal in that, my friend, the governing powers become the associations and organisations that control the movement of that capital and wealth. the corporations, the MNCs, big business. because of the consumerist material driven society these groups have taken the reigns and they are tugging on them so delicately and masterfully that perhaps even some of them themselves arent aware of the power they wield.

wanna overthrow something? overthrow materialist consumerism, corporate exploitation, MNC manipulation of smaller developing countries (not to mention ownership), plundering of the global natural resources, overthrow consumerist marketing that has been psychologically primed over decades to manipulate the public, remarkably successfully, by appealing to desires they dont know they have.

but please, dont overthrow the government; possibly the one structure that would allow successful inhibition of the power these giants wield.

to follow on from this and address the original question

in the traditional system, as laid down by the founding politico-philosophers of democracy, we should let the sovereign power have enough control so as to ensure the protection of individual life, liberty and property but no more. the sovereign should ensure that individuals who enter into a social contract with it (live and work within its system) are free from the dangers of the 'natural state' (unprompted murder, random beatings, rape). any extension oftheir control justifies their removal and any deficit of theit control again justifies their removal.

unfortunately, you could be pretty extensive and random in your introduction of legislation that supposedly protects either life liberty or property (surveillance that invades ones privacy for anti terrorism, for instance)

:Grin:
 

iroboy

Junior Members
psibaduh said:
i can see anger brewing in the depths of the Forum's eyes...

*diffuses situation by throwing special treats out to everyone*

now, everyone just take their medicine and relax


an interestingly Lockean notion of resistance against the sovreign power has just arisen...

but should we really be concerning ourselves with revolution and resistance? no i dont think so, it is simply not reliable, viable or justifiable. so to dwell on it often leads to an attachment to the romanticism of being the 'rebel' and fighter of oppression

most importantly, i think this sentiment is largely irrelevant because it is no longer clear who the sole sovereign power is in Western capitalist countries. is it the government? or is the government driven by a shadow force far more disturbing. something faceless, almost impreceptible. moveable capital and wealth. and if you deal in that, my friend, the governing powers become the associations and organisations that control the movement of that capital and wealth. the corporations, the MNCs, big business. because of the consumerist material driven society these groups have taken the reigns and they are tugging on them so delicately and masterfully that perhaps even some of them themselves arent aware of the power they wield.

wanna overthrow something? overthrow materialist consumerism, corporate exploitation, MNC manipulation of smaller developing countries (not to mention ownership), plundering of the global natural resources, overthrow consumerist marketing that has been psychologically primed over decades to manipulate the public, remarkably successfully, by appealing to desires they dont know they have.

but please, dont overthrow the government; possibly the one structure that would allow successful inhibition of the power these giants wield.

to follow on from this and address the original question

in the traditional system, as laid down by the founding politico-philosophers of democracy, we should let the sovereign power have enough control so as to ensure the protection of individual life, liberty and property but no more. the sovereign should ensure that individuals who enter into a social contract with it (live and work within its system) are free from the dangers of the 'natural state' (unprompted murder, random beatings, rape). any extension oftheir control justifies their removal and any deficit of theit control again justifies their removal.

unfortunately, you could be pretty extensive and random in your introduction of legislation that supposedly protects either life liberty or property (surveillance that invades ones privacy for anti terrorism, for instance)

:Grin:

the only true lockean state in existence is the USA. The patriot acts have firmly placed it in territory far exceeding the mandate of the original 'social contract' set out in the constitution and the amendments.

THe Uk is much further along the line, and similar legislation has been passed here..so having fulfilled your justification for the governments removal...what are we to do?

Let them grab more power, watch people continually be fearmongered into giving up their few remaining rights...it is happening.

You cannot give up liberty and get security. You will only get tryanny / fascism..call it what you want

Fascism is after all the merger of state and corporate control (as described by mussolini himself) that perfectly describes modern politics in America and The UK

we are apparently then living ina neo-fascism... sure tastes sweet tho cos we got sky tv and 24 hour tescos:irolleyes
 

Squagnut

There's a gnu in my squat
kunningtoerag said:
After watching the movie AEONFLUX , i wondered about how much control we will allow the system to have over our daily lives??? Is it possible to live a totally self sustained lifestyle today, in this country, and if so, how??? Surley we rely on the state to provide much of the things we take for granted, shops, roads, water, transport, etc, and to totally opt out is becoming more and more difficult as time goes on.
I dont want to be a stick in the mud, but from where i am sitting i cant see a sustainable future for any of us, due to the mass re-education needed to help people understand the problems we face in the near future.
I've not seen Aeonflux, but much of what you write is bollocks. "...we rely on the state to provide..." Shops? No, we rely on Tesco et al to provide shops. Roads? Yeah, I started building a road from my place to my mate's house two miles away. Shame I had to knock down all those houses in between. Water? I don't know if you missed it, but back in Thatcher's day control over water supply was privatised, and it's gone downhill since then - price increases as the expectations of shareholders need to be met, and less maintainance, as it's easier to hike up prices and order hosepipe bans than it is to repair pipes. Transport? Please name one state-owned-and-controlled transport network? That's all in private hands too. Prisons, hospitals, schools, you name it, it's being pushed into the private sector as much as possible.

What do you mean, "totally opt out"? To be free of all influences of the state? I'd have a think about what that means, if I were you.
 

martin_e

Pantheistic Cyberneticist
Squagnut said:
Transport? Please name one state-owned-and-controlled transport network?
British Waterways ... :P
 
Top