Identity Cards!

Magic

Magic

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I just heard on the news that Mr Blair is trying to bring out identity cards by 2007 with every passport issued. The card will incluede picture and biometric data such as eye scan stuff.

cost will be 3 billion squid to bring them out!

Now i dont really have a problem with somone knowing who i am but to have all my data pooled on some government computer somewhere that someone can hack into n find out im sure thats not right....

Im not sure if this is a positive thing and so what can be done to prevent it im sure there will be plenty of protests etc about it if it is passed nearer the time ..

What do yas reckon?
 
If they can actually get a database system built that works then it'll be a miracle. Personally i see it as being a spectacularly embarassing waste of money ...

Beyond that .. well .. its all a bit suspicious. There is this new bio-metrics stuff that has tob e on passports (by international agreement) but the UK is the only country in the EU to go this far! Why do they want this information? To prevent terrorism? Immigration? So they'll claim the ID card is watertight and INSTANTLY the thing becomes worth a small fortune on the black market. So terrorists or immigrants, with enough cash, can still get into the country and they won't even be scrutinised doing so. So that won't work. So why DO they want to introduce them? Or are they just spectacularly short sighted?
 
My biggest concern is the government couldn't manage the implementation of a database project if their fucking ringpieces depended on it (CSA = case in point) so something of this scale will be both a failure and a huge drain on public money in the name of "national security" (yeah right)

Already not a single economist in the world believes that Browns figures for economic growth are realistic and that taxes need to rise to plug a black hole in public spending and that's before they need to find the 20 billion or so that this project will no doubt run to on top of it's budget before being either canned or released as a far cut down face saving effort.

So civil liberties aside the first thing the scheme is going to hit is your fucking pocket.
 
Even Bush doesn't want ID Cards!

I reckon it's just the govt trying to look tough. You know, tough on crime, and tough on immigration. Wankers! It's beginning to look like even the Tories don't support it.

Howzat! New labour more authortarian, and more right wing than the Tories. Just about sums them up...

Hugs,

Barclay
 
Aside from the fact that there is no need for these whatsoever...

I find it hugely objectionable to think that we are going to be charged £93 each for the privilege of owning one of these things, whilst those other european countries which do use them either give you them for nothing or just charge a small fee to replace them (Germany is around the £10-12 mark IIRC). So we're going to pay Crapita or some similar large corporation, making a mint already, a huge amount of money and watch them f@ck it up and then have to bail them out again with our direct taxes afterwards. :mad: :crazy:

They won't stop terrorism, it's doubtful they'll do much to stop identity fraud or any other criminal activity either.
 
Goz said:
There is this new bio-metrics stuff that has tob e on passports (by international agreement) but the UK is the only country in the EU to go this far!
Click to expand...

Not true, the new Greek passports that will start getting issued as of January 2006 will have biometric readings.

Public spending aside, guys get over the whole Big Brother paranoia!

Identity theft is a real and serious issue and if the whole thing gets introduced with the right legislation and the correct amount of privacy laws (as I'm sure it will in the UK at least) a lot of things are gonna get a lot difficult for criminals.

I'm not saying this is a panacea for dealing with crime but it definitely is one more way of preventing identity theft and fraud.

Oh yeah, and the technical aspects of course need to be dealt with accordingly.

UK has a history of being reluctant with new things such as this being introduced. In the end you guys always join in, at your right pace and without the rushed mistakes that others do.
 
:grandad: oy cheeky bender!!!!

what will happen if you cant afford 93 squids!!!!!! biometric data - FINE
but why in a form we need to carry with us at all times!! surely if the situation should arise one could just present ones biometric passport at the police staion or whatvever within 3 days? like for driving liscenses? or use them to open bank accounts?
 
Blender Bender said:
Not true, the new Greek passports that will start getting issued as of January 2006 will have biometric readings.
Click to expand...

EVERYWHERE has to have biometric readings. What biometrics are the greeks using ... cos i don't think they are doing anything like as many as the UK. Either that or i am misinformed ...
 
Blender Bender said:
Not true, the new Greek passports that will start getting issued as of January 2006 will have biometric readings.

Public spending aside, guys get over the whole Big Brother paranoia!

Identity theft is a real and serious issue and if the whole thing gets introduced with the right legislation and the correct amount of privacy laws (as I'm sure it will in the UK at least) a lot of things are gonna get a lot difficult for criminals.

I'm not saying this is a panacea for dealing with crime but it definitely is one more way of preventing identity theft and fraud.

Oh yeah, and the technical aspects of course need to be dealt with accordingly.

UK has a history of being reluctant with new things such as this being introduced. In the end you guys always join in, at your right pace and without the rushed mistakes that others do.
Click to expand...

Big Brother paranoia :p

Identity theft is real, but is also much smaller than it's being made out to be in most of the media. Having an ID card you can present in person will not stop the majority of identity theft, most of which relies on people not actually being there when you make a purchase ie: over the phone/internet etc...

Talk to people from other countries with ID cards and you'll find they still have identity theft and fraud and all the other crimes these are supposedly going to stop dead.
 
There's also the point about whether we can trust our governments. Speaking personally, I wouldn't trust *any* government as far as I can chuck them. New Labour is talking about safeguards enacted in legislation, but amendments can be actioned in no time at all. Even worse, we're expected not only to trust the present government, but all future governments as well.

Now I ask you... Would you????

Hugs,

Barclay
 
Magic said:
but to have all my data pooled on some government computer somewhere that someone can hack into n find out im sure thats not right....
Click to expand...

You think it isn't already?
 
Blender Bender said:
Public spending aside, guys get over the whole Big Brother paranoia!

Identity theft is a real and serious issue and if the whole thing gets introduced with the right legislation and the correct amount of privacy laws (as I'm sure it will in the UK at least) a lot of things are gonna get a lot difficult for criminals.

I'm not saying this is a panacea for dealing with crime but it definitely is one more way of preventing identity theft and fraud.
Click to expand...

My arse....

Blender Bender said:
Oh yeah, and the technical aspects of course need to be dealt with accordingly.
Click to expand...

Didn't someone just mention the CSA? *cough*

Blender Bender said:
UK has a history of being reluctant with new things such as this being introduced. In the end you guys always join in, at your right pace and without the rushed mistakes that others do.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we all joined in with the war too didn't we? No rushing, no mistakes made there of course....ooooh I think you just convinced me.
 
Woooooooh.... I can see my post caused a bit of outrage...

Goz, the new greek passports will have fingerprint and iris scan for definite, I'm not sure if they will include anything else. When I mentioned public spending, I did mean that the 93 squid price tag was included but my english failed me, I apologize.

Having to carry the ID card with you at all time, I agree that sucks. On the other hand I don't find that too weird because growing up in Greece I'm used to carrying ID around with me as the police are allowed to do a "stop and search" at anytime here and you MUST carry some form of ID, same as with driving license. I would much prefer to have the allowance to show the required identification up to 3 days later at my local police station but here in the land of tzatziki that is pure science fiction talk.

Let me reiterate. Identity cards are a good principle, they just need to be enforced the right way. With all the european countries introducing them soon and the UK taking its sweet time debating the issue, the problems arising will be tackled when legislation is finally passed.

Floatyhippyflower, take a chill pill. :lol:
 
Anyone see Channel 4 news last night? A minister (presumably from the Home office - sorry can't remember his name) wouldn't even give a ball park estimate of how much the system would cost to set up!

So, in other words, we're meant to agree to a proposal without knowing the cost. Of course the fact is that the government have no idea what the cost will be either, and our using the tendering process as an excuse not to talk about it. The fact that they've released an approximation of the annual running cost is beside the point in their eyes. Inevitably, they refuse to see the contradiction..... or the fact that people are increasingly seeing through the spin.

Jeez but it's frustrating to hear people knowingly, deliberately, and willfully refusing to answer questions. It just makes me want to hit them - hard!

Hugs,

Barclay

P.S. Blender Blender mate - if problems have to be tackled after the legislation is passed, it's going to be way too late. We'll be saddled with a system that doesn't work, is hugely expensive, and which violates basic principles of human rights, liberty and privacy.

Because you have a system in Greece, it doesn't follow that we have to have one here. Because one country's got it wrong, it doesn't mean we have to follow. Rather you should be campaigning to have the system repealed!

In short, 2 wrongs don't make a right....
 
Barclay (Dark Angel) said:
P.S. Blender Blender mate - if problems have to be tackled after the legislation is passed, it's going to be way too late. We'll be saddled with a system that doesn't work, is hugely expensive, and which violates basic principles of human rights, liberty and privacy.
Click to expand...

Hmm... my english skills fail me a second time in the same thread... How embarassing....

I'm sorry guys, what I meant by "the problems arising will be tackled when legislation is finally passed" is that the law will be altered to the tackle the problems arising in other countries BEFORE it is passed in the UK...

I'm gonna shut up now because it seems that I'm rapidly forgetting my english and I'll only manage to create more confusion....

:peace:
 
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