it's been a while - new psy :)

AEON

dipthong mong
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hi all,

this is the first track i've ever put together in ableton. it definitely represents where i want to take my music in the future :Smile3:

linkety-link

it's mid-tempo melodic morning-ish psy.

some of the lead sounds and a lot of the fx were played on either guitar or 'lectric violin. it has been tested in notts, brighton & sheffield - so far so good it seems :Smile3: but there's still some tweaking to be done.

any advice / criticism / rants / adjectives muchly appreciated. this is a new sonic direction for me as i can finally begin to do all the things i wanted to do with music all along. i hope you enjoy it, please let me know!
 

noform

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i like some of the sounds nearer the start...
a few bits of criticism-
the bass is prominent at the wrong freqs... and the kick/bass/percussion could sit better. one tip i'd say is to grab a 1 bar loop from a favorite professionally produced track, add 1 bar of your track and get the production sounding similar. this is useful with basslines.
and chuck a good crash in there, it accents a drop really nicely.
also, by the start of the track you've forgotten the first bit. this is because of (imo):
-theres not enough constant sounds. one good thing which ties a track together is when you have 2 or 3 distinct sounds that you hear in the intro, and the middle, and the end. let the outro be inspired by the intro. how long did it take you to write this?
-10:30 is a bit too long tbh, and most labels wouldnt put it on their compilation at that length. 9 minutes or so is really as long as you want to go if you're a new artist and you're planning to release on compilations.

i also felt that the last bit is maybe just a bit too mad. its hard to grab onto any one sound there and ride it... maybe simplify/harmonise it a little bit?

and dont be afraid to raise the volume of the sounds. check out Liquid Souls remix of Freqs 'Strange Attractor' and check how loud he gets the sounds. the trick is to not have them clashing in their frequencies.

i liked the atmoshperic intent and some of the trippy fx you're using. i think your production has some distance to come but musically i can see you're getting ur ideas down well. i'd say maybe simplify a little bit.
:Smile3:
 

AEON

dipthong mong
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thanks heaps noform :Smile3:

noform said:
a few bits of criticism-
the bass is prominent at the wrong freqs... and the kick/bass/percussion could sit better. one tip i'd say is to grab a 1 bar loop from a favorite professionally produced track, add 1 bar of your track and get the production sounding similar. this is useful with basslines.

i've been experimenting with the interaction between bassline and kick quite a lot. i know an mp3 isn't going to give the best feedback but i've been fairly happy with the results on systems up to 12k - but haven't had a chance to listen on anything bigger yet... at the moment i'm trying to get the kick's sub to sit properly with the bass, which is a touch high in level i think.

-theres not enough constant sounds. one good thing which ties a track together is when you have 2 or 3 distinct sounds that you hear in the intro, and the middle, and the end. let the outro be inspired by the intro. how long did it take you to write this?

i understand what you're getting at here... but i actually prefer the more chaotic nature of the melodic strains running throughout. there are little hints of things past & things to come in the body of the track.

i'm not sure how long it took to write. i've been doing bits of it on and off for about 2 months now, but i don't get much time to focus on music right now.

-10:30 is a bit too long tbh, and most labels wouldnt put it on their compilation at that length. 9 minutes or so is really as long as you want to go if you're a new artist and you're planning to release on compilations.
firstly, i'm not bothered about compilation releases right now - i'm still fine-tuning my work before starting on a second album.

despite that, i'm aware that it's quite long - but one of my restrictions is that this is a live performance. all the guitars and violin parts were recorded live, and it's intended for use in my live set. i need the time to setup the different instruments, configure FX settings etc. whilst still leaving room for on-the-fly tweaking :Smile3: about a minute or two needs to be chopped out - Barclay told me the same thing :Wink3:

i also felt that the last bit is maybe just a bit too mad. its hard to grab onto any one sound there and ride it... maybe simplify/harmonise it a little bit?

i think that's the nature of the beast to an extent. one of the greatest challenges for me personally is tying together all the different strains without losing focus or presence for any individual component, but it's also one of my strengths as a producer i think. sorting out sounds so that they work together better is definitely something i am working on, but broadly speaking it won't change much stylistically - i like the madness :Smile3:

and dont be afraid to raise the volume of the sounds. check out Liquid Souls remix of Freqs 'Strange Attractor' and check how loud he gets the sounds. the trick is to not have them clashing in their frequencies.
definitely. i always hesitate - probably because the EQing could be more precise throughout - which i think gives the bass too much presence. time to go back with a fine-tooth comb!

thanks again noform for a great & indepth piece of criticism... it's really helpful to hear things from another perspective, and every fresh set of ideas helps.

cheers man :Smile3:
 

noform

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if you appreciated my cons.crit i can think of a few more things...
love the waterey sounds at the start. and i dig the 'just sounds' approach in the earlier stages of the track.
i mite add, maybe fill out your percussion a little? it sounds good but it feels like it could be a little more full, with a bigger spectrum of sounds.
one good tip is to chop up drumloops, and fuck em around till they've become your own and then add them to a percussion folder (as in a folder channel) and a percussion group channel (important to do imo)
something like the drop at 2:14 could be made a lot more powerful. the way that the OHH is brought in makes it seem like its intent was a drop... so maybe a few more 'drop' techniques could be applied?
i think the biggest factor i could hear here was the time taken to write it. the best tracks i've usually found are written in a matter of days. i just finished a track after 2 months of trying... FINALLY! its released now n everything, but only after i restarted it... twice. after 2 months there's usually so many headspaces it just doesnt work as one.
considering that, my ultimate advice would be to put some time aside to get this track done and polished. personally i'd bounce the track to stems and do a remix. most importantly, dont take more than a few days to do it.
the best tracks i listen to always have one consistent vibe. they might float through a range of emotions, they might be constantly changing, but it all sounds like 'one track' and can be remembered distinctively.
ask yourself, what about this track makes it memorable? i'm not saying its not, and i'm not saying that catchy riffage is the only way forward, but i think every track should be here for a reason, and its great when people can come up to you and say wow! loved that track with the sound X!!!
also, the time-stretching bit at 6:00 could have been alot smoother i think... its a difficult task i know to timestretch beats well. listen to the clicks and try n get em out.
i liked the section around 5:30, with the bongo-ish affects and pads... maybe elaborate on it?
i hope this doesnt sound like i'm ripping apart your track, just an in-depth criticism which you seemed to appreciate the first time round.
 

AEON

dipthong mong
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hey,

i genuinely do appreciate it :Smile3:

something like the drop at 2:14 could be made a lot more powerful. the way that the OHH is brought in makes it seem like its intent was a drop... so maybe a few more 'drop' techniques could be applied?

but that particular drop is intentional! :Wink3: i could easily have put a rising synth pad sound and a big cymbal splash but i think it's more subtle and unexpected that way. it seems to catch people by suprise a bit on the dancefloor!

i think the biggest factor i could hear here was the time taken to write it. the best tracks i've usually found are written in a matter of days. i just finished a track after 2 months of trying... FINALLY! its released now n everything, but only after i restarted it... twice. after 2 months there's usually so many headspaces it just doesnt work as one.

definitely. shortening the creative process does seem to focus your mind...

for clarification's sake, the bones of the track were laid out in about 2 days worth of work; since then it's been something i've been fiddling with occasionally, altering after getting feedback when playing it out.

i really like your idea of approaching it as a remix project. that would certainly help focus my mind a bit more closely on allowing the parts room to breathe in the overall mix. at the moment when i make changes they're in the host sequencer and i have to bounce everything to listen to it properly, which inhibits that focus we were talking about before. it also requires a degree of commitment to decide when the tracks are finished, which would also be helpful!

also, the time-stretching bit at 6:00 could have been alot smoother i think... its a difficult task i know to timestretch beats well. listen to the clicks and try n get em out.

definitely. i think it's because i did it in ableton - might be to do with the whole granular thing. tbh timestretching is quite commonplace so i could get rid of it & save some time in one fell swoop :Wink3:

ask yourself, what about this track makes it memorable? i'm not saying its not, and i'm not saying that catchy riffage is the only way forward, but i think every track should be here for a reason, and its great when people can come up to you and say wow! loved that track with the sound X!!!

i don't know much about memorability! :Wink3: :Grin: i just write the music i write :Smile3:
 

AEON

dipthong mong
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considering that, my ultimate advice would be to put some time aside to get this track done and polished. personally i'd bounce the track to stems and do a remix. most importantly, dont take more than a few days to do it.

one more thing if you don't mind :Smile3: by 'stems' do you mean the component tracks?

thanks!
 

AEON

dipthong mong
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ok, this thread looks like it will turn into me talking to myself :Wink3:

but here goes -

what i am planning to do is render all the individual tracks... then reload them all into a new Live set, with separate (good quality) EQs, spatial tools and compressors for each track. then start the process of working to give each sound enough space in the mix. does that sound like a productive way to go about it? anyone? hehe :Grin:
 

Speakafreaka

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That sounds like a good idea. I always run EQ and compressors on every channel... But I've got to say I think it is sounding pretty fat as it is. On What I'm listening to (not very good speakers) it is coming out just lovely, minimal problem with the bass or kick - If anything I like a change. Yes, the bass sound isn't exactly run of the mill, but good for you. It sounds good and that is what it is all about to me :Smile3:

I kinda like the screwed up timestreching...

Good track.

There is no such thing as too mad. I heard the same critiscism being levelled at Yumade once upon a time. 'some people may find this too psychedelic'. Errrr... hang on.
 

BeatNik

DJohn Mustard Project
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Nice stuff...

Agree with noform, good advice!

I'd personally also try and groove up the bassline abit... the velocities all sound too samey to me, which leads to it sounding like the bassline is a separate entity... when I feel the bass and kick should work together... :Smile3:
Could also possibly be fixed by e.q.ing
Try about -1 or -2 track delay on the bassline as well, just to make it sit a little better...

Love the bubbly transformations... :Grin: nice track...
 

noform

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trust beatnik to go away and do the homework! hehe
when i said it was 'too mad' i was referring to what i thought was too many clashing sounds... obviously music like this should be as mad as possible! point taken tho :Smile3:
i look forward to hearing your spaced out version!
(another tip: the S-1 Imager in Waves is a great way to get stereo space... in moderation! :Grin:)
 

Getafix

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BeatNik said:
personally also... I'd e.q. the bass abit...

Here's a wee bit of e.q.ing I did to the kick and bass :Smile3:
Edit first then original after...
Bear in mind though this is what I'd do... so not sure if it's the sound you want!

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=BDB49FA64F09909E

Done on waves Q10 - if you want settings i'll PM them to ya...

Good luck!

Psy-forum presents "Pimp my bassline" :irofl:

Can you do mine too :iwink:

Nice job though..Listening on my laptop speakers but it sounds much fatter!
 

AEON

dipthong mong
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thanks a bunch guys!

i really appreciate the homework :Wink3: at the moment i'm in australia because some unpleasant stuff has happened to my family :Sad: so it's an emergency trip... but once i get back to broadband i'll be able to hear the pimped version :Smile3:

thanks again everyone i'll be back in a week :Smile3:
 

AEON

dipthong mong
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hey beatniks,

back on broadband at last :Smile3: but the yousendit has expired. i'd still love to hear what you did - perhaps the file isn't necessary if you have Q10 settings still, but either way i'd love to hear it as i'm going to mix a bunch of tracks today!

have sent ya a PM :Smile3:

thanks again all
 
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