My first Cubase track

Getafix

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Hey people..i've just made the transition from FL to SX 3 & it wasn't easy at first but now that i've got the hang of it i find SX so much better to work with! Writing the track comes easily to me but its the final mixdown that is driving me nuts..I'm still not happy with the mix so thought i'd post it up so you guys could give me a few pointers on where i'm going wrong..Here's the link:

http://beatbiz.net/player.php?tid=863&ARTIST=S-Cube&USERID=523



P.S. I had to pull the master fader down by 10db but it still clips at some points..I'm just wondering how do you guys manage to bounce down with the master at 0db?! Still getting the hang of SX so any tips would be much appreciated! :ikiss:
 

BeatNik

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Hey!

Will give your track a proper listen tomorrow :iyes:... for the moment though, to get volume you need to put a limiter on the master output :Smile3:
If the track is being released, send it without a limiter (and without clipping) but if you want a louder mix to speaker-test/play-out etc. put a limiter on the on the master out and push up the volume (the high compression ratio will flatten the peaks allowing for a higher rms, but unfortunately with more nasty noise)

Anyway... shall give it a listen tomorrow! :Grin:


EDIT:
Often, the sign of a good mix is also how high the master volume can go without clipping, as it shows that each sound has it's own space... but being able to mix down without a limiter at 0dB is practically impossible (unless you're making sine-wav based one-tone music :Wink3: )
The best I've managed to mix down at is about -3 dB.... but it's usually between -3 and -9 that i end up with.. :Smile3: - so don't worry about it!
 

herbert newbert

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Hey man

Had a quick listen just now and the first thing that strikes me is that the kick is a bit thin sounding...needs more low end oomph..

not really my sort of thing musically but some nice ideas in there... the track certainly has a nice flow about it... dynamically it works very well
maybe you could could do with a bit more reverb/delay on the synth lines to give them a bit more atmosphere

as for the levels thing...us sound engineering purists will say that you should bring down the levels of all the track faders until the master is not clipping :iwink:
you should never have to bring the master fader down really

well done for making the transition to cubase, you won't be dissappointed! :ismile:

G
 

BeatNik

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timewave0 said:
as for the levels thing...us sound engineering purists will say that you should bring down the levels of all the track faders until the master is not clipping :iwink:
you should never have to bring the master fader down really

To be honest though, when you're working in the 32-bit environment does it really matter? The channel faders themselves are practically impossible to truly clip - it's only the master out which does...

Also, it becomes all to easy to start "fader-following" (i.e. pushing up or pushing down the channel faders as your ears become more used to the sounds) if you start playing with each track fader individually, in my opinion.

It'd be a different ballgame altogether on an analogue mixing desk I admit, but when you have the possibility of purely adjusting the master out, and you're structuring and judging the levels of your track around the kick and bass (as is often done in this genre) then i feel using the master fader to avoid clipping is fine - it won't affect the audio at all anyway!
(specially also if S-Cube has only just started using SX)

I see where you're coming from though :Smile3: - but i do think that precision channel control comes with more experience...

Nik
 

Getafix

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Thanks for the replies guys..I thought that for every 6db you reduce you end up losing 1 bits of data? So thats why i was a little hesitant on putting the master fader down by so much..Anyway i've done another mix this morning since my neighbour wasn't home so i could blast the sound to get the levels right! I ended up putting a limiter on the final wav to get it a little louder..

I forgot to add that the song was for a remix competition so its quite commercial with vocals, guitars & all!

P.s. I was wondering on how to better at giving each sound its own space & i think i need to focus more on cutting out unwanted frequencies from every sound..For instance i'm high passing my leads, guitars at 200hz..But i think maybe i should take each sound that i use in the track & high pass it like highhats, snares etc..
 

evilwill

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timewave0 said:
not really my sort of thing musically

yeah i'm with you there!

its well written though, production all very good. *really* don't like the lead noise that comes in at 1:33 that sounds like it in triplets over the rest of the tune that isn't. too my ears its too loud and it just doesnt fit...

vocals are really nice. i don't actually *like* them, but they sound really well done. it's all very well done to be honest (apart from the lead in the 1st half of the tune)

but what you doing abandoning flstudio eh? tsk. fruityloops til i die :irazz:
 

herbert newbert

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Yeah i see your point beatnik.... just two different ways of doing things i guess...
but if you wouldn't do it on an analogue desk then why do it on the virtual desk? Just think it's a decent habit to get into... but call me old fashioned :ismile:

G
 

BeatNik

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timewave0 said:
Yeah i see your point beatnik.... just two different ways of doing things i guess...
but if you wouldn't do it on an analogue desk then why do it on the virtual desk? Just think it's a decent habit to get into... but call me old fashioned :ismile:

G

Haha.. yeah man, i guess you're right, i usually now mix at a low channel levels anyway, but having basically tought myself on digital media (as i know many new, younger producers have) - my own knowledge of how analogue mixing works was, up until quite recently, non-existant... and when i did start trying to use different ways of working i found myself getting far more bogged down by the "this sounds shite" syndrome than i had been before... but now I've adjusted to my own style of working which i feel can work in many different production media...

anyway.... just gonna post this and now I'm gonna have a listen to the track itself :Smile3:
 

herbert newbert

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S Cube said:
P.s. I was wondering on how to better at giving each sound its own space & i think i need to focus more on cutting out unwanted frequencies from every sound..For instance i'm high passing my leads, guitars at 200hz..But i think maybe i should take each sound that i use in the track & high pass it like highhats, snares etc..

Yeah that's definately a good idea.... with hihats and snares (and indeed every sound you use) often there can be a lot of uncessary frequencies that you can just get rid of with a highpass/lowpass/bandpass..
be careful though! the temptation is there to overdo it and you may end up making it sound worse...:iwink:

G
 

Getafix

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evilwill said:
yeah i'm with you there!

its well written though, production all very good. *really* don't like the lead noise that comes in at 1:33 that sounds like it in triplets over the rest of the tune that isn't. too my ears its too loud and it just doesnt fit...

vocals are really nice. i don't actually *like* them, but they sound really well done. it's all very well done to be honest (apart from the lead in the 1st half of the tune)

but what you doing abandoning flstudio eh? tsk. fruityloops til i die :irazz:

hey man..thanks for the reply..i wasn't too sure abt that lead either and since you *really* don't like it i'm gonna take it out :iyes:

As for abandoning flstudio its a lovely program & its what i used to teach myself how to make music (i know zilch about music theory) but it was hindering my work flow & i was not satisfied with the sound quality..personally i love the flexibility of working with audio in SX and the offline processing..i like the visual layout as well makes it really easy to do arrangement..anyway keep the comments coming..personally i still feel my production is not even 50% of what you need nowadays to get released so any concstructive tips/comments would be appreciated!
 

BeatNik

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Track review:

Having personally made 'cheesier' music before i realised that proper psytrance was the way i can see where you're coming from :Smile3:

To begin with:
Nice lead, would personally like abit more clarity on the actual tone, but that's just my opinion... :Smile3:
The voice however, i feel needs to stick out far more in the mix, it's very important and it sounds too clouded to me... possibly try making the reverb dryer (unless the reverb is already in the sample), also, I'd plop on an e.q. and boost a highshelf from about 7k upward... I can't hear any sibilances properly so the voice sounds very muddy to me - it just becomes a tone...

The leads themselves sound nice... and I like the buildup finishing at 3:38... although I really am not a big fan at all of guitars in psytrance i'm going to try to avoid cringing too hard and say that it is quite well mixed - sitting quite widely in the mix... however i feel it could also do with abit more upper clarity and slightly more power...

The lead however which to me sounds badly mixed initially is the lead starting at about 1:34... it is far too loud IMO- and should really sit back further in the mix... in essence i feel it should balance loudness-wise and clarity-wise with the voice... but it doesn't it completely smothers the voice... more work needed on that..

The rest sounds good though actually... Possibly abit more e.q. work to give each instrument abit more mix space...
Very cheesy :P - like europsy...
Good for a first cubase track though!
 

Getafix

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Europsy:irofl:

great there goes my psytrance career :iwink: i've got to admit i know this track is quite cheesy but since it was for a remix competition i thought the music should be trancey & easy to digest..et voila there you have it "europsy"!

thanks for the review though Beatnik, it helps a lot, i'll try & work on e.q'ing everything since that's the part i get lazy abt..i didn't eq the vocals at all & i was thinking of making the guitars more powerful..its hard though coz i have a 50yr old guy who lives right next to me so i can't play the music loud & its hard to mix sounds when you're playing the music so slow..i need a new apartment!! since i didn't hear any complaints abt the bass,kick & the percussion i assume i'm doing good in that dept!

i'm wondering abt leads though, is highpassing them enough or would you guys also advise lowpassing them also to let the highs shine on top?
 
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