Organ synthesis

Speakafreaka Jun 8, 2004

  1. Speakafreaka

    Speakafreaka Champagne Rouletter

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    I recently dug out my old Pink Floyd album, 'Dark Side Of The Moon, and was listening to the track 'any colour you like'. It struck me that the Organ noise was just sooooo psychedelic!

    Is it possible to get organ noises like that out of a synth? I don't know wether that is a whirly or a hammond or what. I saw several articles on this in Sound on Sound, but, sadly I still lack a fat organ sound on any of my VA synths.

    Ott uses largely the same noise on 'escape from tulse hell' at approx 4.40. It's a kind of fat wobbly rainbow sound. Any ideas anyone? I have got some quite nice noises from my Moog following the SOS tutorial, but none of them seem quite right.
     
  2. soliptic

    soliptic whirling mathematician

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    the exhaustive SoS column begins here:

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov03/articles/synthsecrets.htm

    but only the first part is free to read at present, the rest is eSubscription only for now.

    to be honest I've never heard an Organ sound from a general-purpose synth that doesnt make me want to puke. Honestly - NEVER.

    Even the NI B4, which is a dedicated and detailed emulation of the Hammond, and generally quite well respected, doesnt remotely approach the realism I want (I like making psydub stuff with a strong gospel influence, so droning washes of organ are critical, but i can never, ever sort them out)

    That said I own a genuine vintage organ (a "Godwin Space Blaster") and thats even worse. Truly awful. I use it to dry my boxer shorts on these days.
     
  3. Speakafreaka

    Speakafreaka Champagne Rouletter

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    I've a got all of the sound on sound articles. and yes you can get near but it isn't quite right, with the MMV program.

    If you have 'escape from tulse hell' I'd have a listen, because I reckon it must be an extremely good synthesis. I've never heard an organ vibrato that much. So, If Ott doesn't own a hammondy/wurly type creature, what is he using? and how?
     
  4. opia

    opia locus solus

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    the plugin that comes with logic is quite cool (what's it called.. can't remember).. i can't really comment on how 'real' it sounds, but you can get some ace sounds out of it :Smile3:
     
  5. Speakafreaka

    Speakafreaka Champagne Rouletter

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    actually, thinking about the patch i created with the moog modular V, it sounded nothing like an organ to my ears, however it was an interesting patch, as it revealed a weakness in the program, (ie big, big problem with DC offset, due to the sampled nature of the Sine wave waveform, at least I suspect) and also, it was capable of producing some of the fattest Subs I have ever heard! Nothing like a real organ though, as the Moog isn't capable (to my knowledge) rotary speaker emulation.

    Opia - I have no access to Logic. :no: :no: :no:
     
  6. saxopholus

    saxopholus Junior Members

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    there is a plug-in called Rotator by Steinberg that I use on synths quite often that is a Leslie Speaker simulation. It's not bad I think combined with the NI B4 (the Leslie sim on the B4 doesn't work as well imo). The Logic plug-in is called 'Rotator Cabinet' :thumbup:

    The good thing about the rotator is that the distortion works quite well on the organ or rhodes as well, and it is adjustible.
     
  7. soliptic

    soliptic whirling mathematician

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    well sure, i'll crack on tulse hell ...

    "I reckon it must be an extremely good synthesis. I've never heard an organ vibrato that much"

    my organ can actually vibrato a hell of a lot. also, surely it could be FX on a non-vibratoing sound.

    seems a bit pointless tho when the man himself will show up any minute and tell ya !
     
  8. soliptic

    soliptic whirling mathematician

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    uhm...

    i hear tons of organ thru the first 3-4 minutes of the tune.

    but the sound at 4:40 is in my estimation not an organ at all! it sounds far more like an accordian or related instrument.... very french , strings of onions, etc

    am i even listening to the right noise?

    sod it, i give up, Ott can tell ya :Grin:
     
  9. saxopholus

    saxopholus Junior Members

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    at 4:40 tis more like an accordian but no idea how he made it sound like that. nice!
     
  10. soliptic

    soliptic whirling mathematician

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    /me listens to "eat static - mondo a go go" and marvels at the genius of people who make can use the worst casio organ sound available and still come out with one of the most brilliant tracks in the cosmos :Grin:
     
  11. Speakafreaka

    Speakafreaka Champagne Rouletter

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    all good and true Soliptic. The only organ I've ever got my hands on to play with wouldn't do that though, so who knows???

    I will check out that rotary plugin saxopholus, sounds interesting. I already have it as it comes with SL, but I've not really looked into it. Too many knobs!

    Ott!!!! Are you out there? Care to elucidate?
     
  12. saxopholus

    saxopholus Junior Members

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    did I say Steinberg, oops. I meant Akai, doh! [​IMG]
     
  13. JPsychodelicacy

    JPsychodelicacy Studio Elf

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    That would be a melodica, I reckon.

    He did post about it a while back... unfortunately I can't find the thread now...

    J.
     
  14. soliptic

    soliptic whirling mathematician

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    Odd that this is about the only thread in this forum Ott hasnt replied to :lol1:
     
  15. JPsychodelicacy

    JPsychodelicacy Studio Elf

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    Temperamental artists.... :rolleyes:

    I also remember him mentioning he used a Rode NT2 to record into the machine - didn't ask him about the digital futzing though.

    J.
     
  16. Ott^

    Ott^ Guest

    The sound at 4:40 is a Hohner Melodica - a keyboard instrument that you blow into.

    [​IMG]

    recorded with a Rode NT2 and with a Logic phaser across it.

    The organ sounds on that tune [and all the others] are from Native Instruments B4, and contrary to what Soliptic says [as most of my posts seem to be these days... :Grin: ] I reckon the B4 is as good an emulation of a real Hammond B3 as you could hope to acheive.

    A while back, whilst working in a studio in Wales, we miked up the studio Hammond and A-B'd it with the B4, and to be honest the only real difference was the "wikkiwikkiwikki" noise that the real Hammond made when you weren't playing it - the sound of hiss and noise passing through the Leslie horn.

    I too despise synthetic organ sounds - the B4 is the only one I would ever use because it has all the charm and grit and playability of the real thing - especially with a Peavey PC1600 fader box [or similar] so you can adjust the drawbars while you're playing.

    As with any sound though - it is dependent on how you treat it and what you play. I like to record my organ parts into the sequencer and then record them to audio by passing them through a speaker and miking it up. That way you get the frequency characteristics of the mic and a bit of real room sound, which is the other nice feature that a miked up Hammond has that the B4 doesn't.
     
  17. saxopholus

    saxopholus Junior Members

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    nice tips! I guess there are quite a few things you could re-record thru an amp to good effect - esp other soft synths.

    not glamorous is it the melodica :Grin: Still sounds pretty good with a phaser.
     
  18. JPsychodelicacy

    JPsychodelicacy Studio Elf

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    And if you need to put that back in for whatever reason and you're on a low budget, you can always sample the first few seconds of 'This Is A Low' by Blur (before the guitar starts you can hear the Leslie spinning up).

    :Smile3:

    J.
     
  19. saxopholus

    saxopholus Junior Members

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    aha did wonder where I could get a sample from. there is a lesile noise fill in a Graham Central Station track called 'Water' too. :Smile3:
     
  20. soliptic

    soliptic whirling mathematician

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    :lol1:

    Yes. It is the best I've heard. Apart from maybe a Roland hammond-emulating keyboard I played a while back, but its quite possible I found that more convincing because I was playing it , with its appropriate sized and weighted keys and all, and hearing it come thru a keyboard amp (if not an actual leslie).

    So, best I've heard.... It's just that I still cant persuade it to give me the sound I want.

    Yeah... its probably these aspect that lets it down for me. Because when I say I cant get the "realism" I want, what I'm basically getting at is the oldness of it. And I guss what I'm trying to emulate is a hammond recorded in a room with 1960s kit and techniques, listened to on a 30 year old vinyl. And I compare that sound with a crystalline, 32-bit digital B4 piped into a bit of native reverb, and its "not remotely realistic". (Lets not even go into the fact that I'm playing the latter, and a proper hammond player played the former :P )

    Any tips on 'aging' sounds in such a fashion? I've tried everything I can think of - tape/valve emulations, vinyl emulation fx, plain old distortions, eqing and filtering, reverbs, chorus and rotary fx , in various combinations.... :mad:

    I expect you'll tell me the only real way is by actually doing it - sound > amp > room > mic > sound. You're probably right... unfortunately I'm micless :sad:
     
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