PSY-FORUM - Freedom of Speech? WTC Collapse Thread Closed!?

planetfrog

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Re: WTC Collapse = Controlled Demolition - Official 911 story is utter Bollocks.
It is the opinion of the moderator team that this thread has, in general, ceased to serve any useful function. It has deteriorated into repeated statements of position and pisstaking; respectful discussion is mainly conspicuous by its absence. There have already been official warnings given to some participants due to their conduct on this thread.

We realise that some element of sense is still being spouted on both sides; however to prevent things from getting out of hand the decision has been taken to lock the thread. We apologise to those forum members who are engaged in serious discussion here, but we must think of the forum as a whole above any particular thread, and we hope that you find other methods (PM, new threads) of continuing.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact a member of the moderating team; our user names are in the signature of this post.

Thanks for your understanding,

The Psy-Forum Moderator Team.
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DaRgOn
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eT
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Moonquake
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Whats the big idea?

Is this an enlightened forum, are all of us being represented by the concerns of dutiful moderators - or influenced by coward/s with egos to protect?

Should we allow those ego's to represent all members and moderators on the board on the board?

Why do I feel like I've seen this all before - and it's no surprise.

For those of you who are not afraid ( Members and Moderators Alike ) to discuss things openly, may I suggest you post your thoughts here.

Given that the moderator who has made the decision to close the thread has not left his/her name, but a list of moderator names - may I politely ask all Moderators who voted for the close of the thread to post here to register their agreement in the decision here on the board.

Alternatively, if there are moderators who disagree with the decision to close the thread - they too are equally welcome on this thread to register their feelings - so we can keep things in the open and get our much beloved thread reopened.

Personally, I rather not have to write this because I'd rather be discussing with people I've been chatting / exchanging with over the last few months on the thread - regardless of whether we agree or not.

Whether the Mod/s in question who have closed the thread will like it or not, the thread has been a tremendous success and topic of discussion for months on end. There have been multiple visitors to it, and it's reached over 7,000 views - and been the longest ( I think ) in this sections history.

It seems insufficient to close the thread on the veiled accusation of a few members behaviour that has been on the thread. There's been derision, idiocy, and alot of debate - but I dont think anyone has felt victimised to the point of necessitating the thread being closed. Certainly there are many threads with similar behaviour on the psy forum which would constitute being closed if this were the case.


On the WTC thread - we've all had a crack at each other, and at times even found moments to pause for moments of good will in the frey, but I think we are all mature and enlightened enough to walk away from the computer screen if the topics ever got too much - perhaps for the Moderator whos made this decision this is a sad reflection of their own lack of self control.

Unless there can be some justifiable reason to close the thread on the basis of those involved then the decision to close the thread is NOT made in the interests of the participants - but by those who are not participants.

It seems a shame that on a thread where many people here have defended the rights of freedom, tolerance, enlightenment, truth, and peace, that there has been no substantial excuse to take the action.

I propose that this thread has not been closed as a result of a unanimous decision from all moderators - but on the decision of a select few or less. For those moderators who have NOT made the decision to close the thread, I am not here to tar you with the same brush.
I have faith

Respectfully, I request that we immediately reopen the thread in the interests of freedom of thought, debate, and speech unless those of us who have not been party to this decision are able to at least have a list of those moderators who stand behind the closure.

I understand why there are moderators, but like a government they are there to serve us as opposed to serving themselves, ironically reflected in the themes of the thread currently closed.

So please, those who made the decision to close the thread , please step forwards and prove to everyone you stand honestly behind your decision, rather than speaking for everyone of the 7000 views who has read, participated and enjoyed the thread. Personally I think you say more of yourself by not showing your true identity in doing so , - speaking from behind the curtain.

If the Moderator declines this opportunity, may I suggest those who have participated consider what that demonstrates about the interests in the freedoms and interests of all here. How Ironic it is that this should occur within the "Environment and Politics" Section - what does this say about our policy towards both?

SO MOD - IS YOUR DECISION TO CLOSE THE THREAD TRULY AN ENIGHTENED ONE?

....or more reflective of the kind of mentality that leads to this:

On YOUR conscience be it.




for the moderators who are not represented by this - please, demonstrate what a moderator is all about - I respectfully request that you reopen the thread, or step forwards to express your opinion.​


If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington


If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise we do not believe in it at all.

-Noam Chomsky

DID THE MODERATOR WHO DID THIS SPEAK FOR YOU?
 

CariFairy

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When a thread like this is closed, there is usually a discussion about it in the "staffroom" and if more than half the mods agree it is the right thing to do then it gets closed.

Sounds fair enough to me.
 

psibaduh

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planetfrog i dont think the thread was closed largely because of particular member's conduct. more that the topic had been thoroughly exhausted and anything else that was said was either a purposeless regurgitation of something mentioned previously (i myself was guilty of that!) or fuel to the flames of an emotive inter-member argument that was overlaying the real discussion because of its contraversial nature.

there are plenty of resources there now for anyone seeking any enlightenment about the issue to review and make up an informed decision. i would drop the matter friend, the mods decision is hardly the imposition of a fascist regime!

peace to you and credit for expending such energy into something you feel so strongly about. find a new discussion and do it there!

:Smile3:
 

planetfrog

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psibaduh said:
planetfrog i dont think the thread was closed largely because of particular member's conduct. more that the topic had been thoroughly exhausted and anything else that was said was either a purposeless regurgitation of something mentioned previously (i myself was guilty of that!) or fuel to the flames of an emotive inter-member argument that was overlaying the real discussion because of its contraversial nature.

there are plenty of resources there now for anyone seeking any enlightenment about the issue to review and make up an informed decision. i would drop the matter friend, the mods decision is hardly the imposition of a fascist regime!

peace to you and credit for expending such energy into something you feel so strongly about. find a new discussion and do it there!

:Smile3:
Thanks psi for your considered response. I do see your points regarding the emotiveness of the issue, however, I do feel there is potentially still much life ( without the mud slinging ) left in the topic.

Please refer to my next post.

Peace to you too mate and thank you again for your positive words.

Peace

xfrog
 

planetfrog

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Dear Forum members and moderators!


psibaduh said:
...... i would drop the matter friend, the mods decision is hardly the imposition of a fascist regime!


:Smile3:



I would like to take this opportunity to redress my position, and acquiesce a little with everyone here.:drinking:

Perhaps I was a little too quick off the mark to imply a sense of wrong doing upon the part of the moderators who have been given to close the previous thread.

Psibaduh has indeed pointed out quite rightly that the mods decision is indeed hardly the imposition of a fascist regime, and perhaps my implication of it was in someways fueled not by the moderators but by the great concern I have for this planet and its inhabitants who in my view are being driven into a police state and indeed a fascist regime. I hope I have not caused any undue offence if others understood it this way, and I would like to say that all though being ( hopefully ) the "right kind of trouble maker" - my intention is one to promote peace, and not act as a tool of division between people.

Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their participation in the said thread and tip my hat to both moderators and members. We have engaged in what has been a very contraversial and emotive debate, and yes, although there has been some quite emotive exchanges on the thread, I think we have all learned something from participating with it.

I'd like to thank particularly the owner of the website eT, who I expect has become aware of the thread, and thank eT for having the grace to allow the thread to continue in a "PART 2" if you will.

I think it's important to acknowlege the reasons why the thread was originally closed and for those of us who do continue it on, to avoid resorting to personal slurs , but to keep on topic.

Admittedly I have been guilty at times of goading a response through such methods, but will certainly avoid more diligently my own conduct in the new wtc/collapse thread.

If the thread dies a natural death, - i.e there is no further indication of discussion on it I will accept that, rather than looking like I'm talking to myself. If however people feel given to respond ( and politely & civilly please!) then this will indicate that there is still reason for the thread live, rather than killing it.

I will also say now, that should anyone respond to you if you are a participant in an uncivil or slanderous way that the best policy would be to not reply at all. I too will follow this rule.
For those here, who do not feel there is any worth in it's continued discussion, then I accept that , but please demonstrate your resolve by not posting further and risking it's censorship for anyone who is showing a genuine interest.

So Rule number one:
LETS KEEP IT CIVIL & GOOD HUMOURED!
( And dont feed the trolls! )


God, now I sound like a moderator!.

Ok,

Believe it or not, I do have other interests, and rather than start the thread right away, I'm going to go and practice getting barre chords right on my new guitar!

Peace all

and once again,

THANK YOU to everyone on the forum!


With all my love ,


your inimitable
Dr Frog!:iwink:
Truth Seeker & Idiot
:peace:

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth."
Mohandas Gandhi
 

julian

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I am very sorry to see this thread closed. Not that I was following very closely, but the reasons given do not justify this. I couldn't see things getting "out of hand", and there I didn't see anywhere that a thread has to "serve a function". Even so, the WTC thread was closer to doing that than a lot of other threads on this forum.

Personally, it's not gonna change my life, I hardly ever read planetfrog's ramblings (included the ones in this thread), but this measure looks disgustingly similar to trying to prevent Brian Haw from protesting in Parliament Square because he's spoiling the views. If anything, I thought it was a very colourful thread and I found it amusing to see the total incapacity of people to let go and ignore it.

While not necessarily sharing his views, I feel for planetfrog. I would hate it if that happened to me.

So is this the start of a new marathon-thread then?

:peace:
 

Full Lotus

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Not spoiling the view as so much, but flogging a dead horse :Wink3:
 

Continuum

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The WTC thread was locked after a unanimous decision and was categorically not a unilateral action taken by a single mod as digifrog claims.
 

CariFairy

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Continuum said:
The WTC thread was locked after a unanimous decision and was categorically not a unilateral action taken by a single mod as digifrog claims.
Oh dear Continuum.....

CariFairy said:
When a thread like this is closed, there is usually a discussion about it in the "staffroom" and if more than half the mods agree it is the right thing to do then it gets closed.

Sounds fair enough to me.
Looks like Soon-To-Steal-Continuums-Mod-Status-Cari got there first - Second post in as well!

:Wink3:




:P
 

JPsychodelicacy

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planetfrog said:
DID THE MODERATOR WHO DID THIS SPEAK FOR YOU?
Hell yes.

J.

(It saved me from spending time pointing out that even disregarding the building's size, a Hercules travelling at or near landing speed with not much fuel is going to do a fraction of the damage that a 767 travelling at or near cruising speed with full tanks will. :Wink3: )
 

John White

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Well I found the thread when I came across Psyforum and so far it has constituted most of my posting here:

which has generated a few problems.

When I read through the thread I felt that it was a polarised debate, but it was also a debate where there was a message with a lot more scope to be communicated

I feel fortunate that I was able to get my last post in because its a gem of a find,
which contains enough valid questions to show that the issue is not satisfactorarily dismissable: unless someone is cast iron set against allowing their thoughts to consider it...
(of course, thats also freedom!)

How could it be any other way when the "official" story is more riduculous than the "conspiracy theories"?

As a man who seeks to use his mind, I am obliged to keep it open


I should explain that I am a self-employed writer, so I am aware that I came on strong for people with the issues I put across: apologies if I harmed anyones blood pressure.

Flexibe thinking is (generally) what I write about, in adition to dowsing and earth energy work, so its naturally reflected when I post, and with a topic like this, quite strongly

Its been amusing to be visualised as some kind of "enlightened troll" but I assure you no offence taken, I hope we can get on better on other threads

With regards to todays desicion I saw no need to close the thread, there was still plenty of fresh material being placed there, but its the moderators call: thats what moderators are for: and its not my forum!

I also appreciate that whilst locked, the thread is remaining in place...and perhaps over the course of the next few weeks, people might find themselves looking at it differently now there is no more "contest of wills" to be played out

The standard of the debate on Psyforum is certainly firm but fair:

unless similar future threads are locked and removed
before a debate even starts, I see no problem here

(And it is my genuine regret to give my opinion that there will be future similar events unless something profound happens)

Regards to all

John White
 

jimmy3000

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Planetfrog I really feel for you, you seem like a good if slightly bonkers person. My dad used to be a total conspiracy theorist when I was younger. Me and him used to discuss endlessly.

Forgive me for saying this but I think there is some sort of mental issue going on. You are too in contact with your dark side. What can your view of your fellow human beings be like? Yes all human being are weak and inclined to corruption and self interest and stepping on the rights of others. I believe there has been government conspiracies to kill certain people throughout history.

But the 9/11 things was not a conspiracy in my view. What would you say if you were sitting in front of the families of those who had died on those flights. The people who had received calls from there loved ones moments before the plains flew in to the buildings.

The conspiracy theory is getting to be a sick joke now. It is sort of similar to denying the holocaust. But it is even worse than denying the holocaust it is saying that the Jews organized it themselves, this is serious business.

In my view the mods where right to lock the tread, everything that could be said about it has been said. There has got to be more to you planetfog, take a break, chill out and post on some other subjects, you write well, lets see what you have got on other topics.


 

TranceVisuals

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Ahhh this reminds me of the Oklahoma bombing back in the '90's, when the
net was fresh, and people had a good old debate. It like the situation has moved
on, but the arguments haven't.
Sure I suspect, that American "Intelligence" wouldn't of mind, even encourage foreign
nationals to carry these "atrocities", we have enough historical precedence for it.
What I would like to know is who was really happy when the planes hit those towers.
I mean, I am going to really honest here and say that I had the biggest f**king grin on
my face when those planes went into the tower, live on TV (well the second one).
Like divine retribution from heaven on the towers of Mammon. Cause all my "hippy"
friends, made me hide it pretty quick, with their bleats of "ooohhh those poor people"
(note the irony there, it is sooo funny).
What is the REAL conspiracy, is that the deaths of a meagre few thousand people caused
such an outrage. Shame about all those niggers, paki's, wogs, jips, jews, johnny foreigners
who are killed out of ignorance/arrogance etc everyday... Sorry but I can't help feel sorry
for those people, it couldn't of happened to a nicer bunch of people.

(sorry for acting the troll, but I followed this thread for sometime, and by no way do
I think that it is over... If it were we wouldn't be in this Iraq conflict, with busloads of
people getting blown up everyday. It is invaluable for us to be able to go back to the
defining moment that killed the nostalgia of the '90's, and only through debate,
discussion can we make sense of where we have ended up. Its psychology folks!!)
 

planetfrog

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Thanks for all the replies so far - and those who've shown shown empathy - my deepest thanks.

I'm pretty busy at the mo, so struggling to keep up with the board. There will be a new WTC thread coming shortly but thought I'd try and get atleast one or two rants out there:

- I'm currently at work - so havent had a good chance to proof read this so forgive me if it sounds a little fragmented - it's tough talking to people, typing, and trying to keep on two different topics all at the same time.





jimmy3000 said:

Planetfrog I really feel for you, you seem like a good if slightly bonkers person. My dad used to be a total conspiracy theorist when I was younger. Me and him used to discuss endlessly.

Thank you Jimmy3000, sounds like you probably have been given a head start with your dad. I am both bonkers and not bonkers. What seperates me from people at times is the fact I can say what I say in awareness of what is bonkers about me. Sometimes, ofcourse being "bonkers" is an unavoidable perception that people ascribe to others, but rather than get offended by it, I often choose to use it to my advantage.

You see, if I have something to get across to others, being a dull witted academic with beige shirt and lack of character is not necessarily going to get the attention of everybody you want to get the message out to. Playing to the preset stereotype others may have ascribed on to me can potentially be turned to my advantage - You see - people who are not interested in the subject at hand, may well be more interested even on a voyeuristic level to involve themselves with something they can more easily identify with - be it in rejection or appreciation. I believe ( at present ) my persuit in raising and questioning the issues of why the WTC Collapsed is so far beyond the relative value of the piss taking or marginalisation I may "suffer" that I am prepared infact to sacrifice aspects of what appears to be my pride to get the message across. The only downside of this is that you get sometimes people acting like monkeys, and bizarrely end up screwing the very people who are pushing the envelope for the causes they schizophrenically claim to champion.

Never the less, a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down. Show the people the sugar, and they cant vomit all of the medicine back up. If even a little gets in there, job done - even if they need a bib. I'm not here to satisfy everyone.



Forgive me for saying this but I think there is some sort of mental issue going on. You are too in contact with your dark side. What can your view of your fellow human beings be like? Yes all human being are weak and inclined to corruption and self interest and stepping on the rights of others. I believe there has been government conspiracies to kill certain people throughout history.



You bet there's a mental issue going on, but from my perception ( and many others) the mental issue is one on a collective level, and ironically not something exclusive to our crazy ol' planetfrog.

As per my view of my fellow human beings, well it's perpetually deepening - yes, there is a definite propensity for human beings to be "weak and inclined to corruption, self interest, and stepping on the rights of others", but I'd be blind to think that these aspects of human behaviour are exclusive aspects of our behaviour. For every "negative" trait we express, there is an equal and opposite "positive" trait. Personally I see it like notes in a musical scale - where the polar opposite of one trait is merely an octave away - differentiated by doubling or halving the frequency of the same vibration - and not seeing it as a necessary battle between light and darkness. This is the trapping of dualistic thinking.

You might be surprised to hear that I would be absolutely gutted if GW and his cronies were stuck infront of a firing squad for anything. I personally at present dont believe in evil - and I dont think the perpetrators of the act were evil. Ignorant perhaps, but then again, ignorant is epidemic in the human species - just look at the way people respond to the information on the WTC thread. If evil exists then it begets itself.

Humans are infinite beings. Infinite potential for love, greed, hate, war & peace - and this is how I view them - including myself. Some might call that a crazy point of view - I call it as I see it. Needless to say, my sanity appears to remain in tact enough to deal politely with all kinds of people, day in day out, learn new skills, be creative, and probably most importantly keep laughing.






But the 9/11 things was not a conspiracy in my view. What would you say if you were sitting in front of the families of those who had died on those flights. The people who had received calls from there loved ones moments before the plains flew in to the buildings.

The conspiracy theory is getting to be a sick joke now. It is sort of similar to denying the holocaust. But it is even worse than denying the holocaust it is saying that the Jews organized it themselves, this is serious business.

If the 911 thing is not a conspiracy in your view, then understandably you may be inclined to see it as getting to be a sick joke.

My denial of issues involving 911 does not and is not an attempt to distract people from the loss of life on that day. Infact, for those who died and their families, it's people like me and others in the 911 truth movement who are actually paying them the greatest homage. Those who seek to silence the debate and investigation should perhaps ask themselves the question you ask me. As I've said before in previous posts, I am motivated out of a desire to be able to respond with compassion for those who suffer - not to perpetuate their suffering.

I dont know enough about the holocaust denial issue to make comment, however I think the day we start locking up people for questioning the holocaust is indeed the day we must question ourselves as to whether it would be appropriate to lock up all people who disagree with the Iraq war, should we see them too as revisionists.



In my view the mods where right to lock the tread, everything that could be said about it has been said.


I disagree - there's plenty more to be said. For those who feel this way the option is simple - rather than spoil it for people who do feel there's more to say by standing on the sidelines and offering nothing more than one-liners, please have the grace to enjoy the forum as everyone else does. I'm not saying this is the case for you Jimmy but you echo sentiments that have been taken to an extreme on the previous thread. As you are aware, I'll be starting off a new thread shortly and it would be nice if people who are posting are doing so with the understanding that they are there not to point fingers at the retard in the wheelchair, but to actually stand aside if they can't help with the efforts of those who care.



There has got to be more to you planetfog, take a break, chill out and post on some other subjects, you write well, lets see what you have got on other topics.
There's actually nothing too me at all Jimmy. I am an illusion that exists within the collective mind and I'm so damn convincing that even I believe I'm for real sometimes.

I'd love to talk on other subjects, and with you I think that would be fine. Unfortunately Jimmy, I feel if I cannot be understood to the point of being effectively silenced while talking about the very thing I've come here to talk about , - something I have put an immense deal of effort into, and practice, then I think if you feel for me now - you'd be stringing yourself up if I started talking about other things. People have a tendency to attack what the identify with as being different - it's like a crime which must be punished.

I've seen it so many times now that it gets kind of boring. Never the less - a topic like the WTC/Demolition is a tough job and someones gotta do it, and I'm not in it for myself.

I reckon that the few on this board who repeatedly convince themselves I'm such an absolute fruit loop and loony conspiracy theorist that my energies would be more appreciated elsewhere. I cant stand the boredom.

PM me if you are interested in discussing other topics or things - I might be able to give you a few pointers where it gets a bit more interesting.

Alternatively come out to the stoke pub tonight for a bit of Salsa dancing - you'll see I can forget about 911 quite easily.:iwink:




...Right I'm posting this warts and all..... will edit if particularly awful tomo.


Peace

xfrog


 

John White

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planetfrog said:
Humans are infinite beings. Infinite potential for love, greed, hate, war & peace - and this is how I view them - including myself. Some might call that a crazy point of view - I call it as I see it. Needless to say, my sanity appears to remain in tact enough to deal politely with all kinds of people, day in day out, learn new skills, be creative, and probably most importantly keep laughing.


New there was a reason I liked you Planetfrog, this statement is it, plus the bit about the trap of dualistic thinking, which was of course, my major point in my contributions to the thread

Liberating our minds is our best and most effective contribution to the benefit of the whole human race

I call it "Freedom"

regards, john


 

John White

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Its alright Yodhe, but like so much its lost in the wood for the trees

With 911, more than any other event, its about the official conspiracy theory vs the unofficial ones....the offical conspiracy story is far the inferior interpretation of what facts can be established, a ten year old could do better

Ironic that its turned everyone into conspiracy theorists from that perspective....
 
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