Rendition

Barclay (Dark Angel)

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I thought I'd look the word up in my dictionary :-

1. A performance of a musical composition

2. A transalation

Mmmmm. That doesn't help much.

So, http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1657735,00.html

Apparently we the UK, could be held in breach of international law for allowing and assisting the CIA in its performance of this musical composition. Well, that's fine by me. So far as I'm concerned you can prosecute the bastards all the way to hell and back.

But there are a couple of interesting points in the article.

"We do not move people around the world so they can be tortured," Stephen Hadley, the White House's adviser, said yesterday, pledging that the Bush administration would deal with the issue "in a comprehensive way". In briefings officials said she would remind European ministers that their governments had cooperated in anti-terror operations with the US."

You bloody what? Remind the European Govts about what? It sounds a bit like, "if I'm going down, you're going down with me". It's definitely an implied threat. Well fuck you Condi!

Then :-

"Andrew Tyrie, the Tory MP and chairman of the parliamentary group, said: "By apparently assisting the US in the practice of extraordinary rendition, the UK and the west are losing the moral high ground so valuable to foreign policy since the end of the cold war."

Wake up and smell the coffee Andrew. The UK, the US and their allies lost the moral high ground years ago...

Hugs,

Barclay
 

sqoo

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Spokesman Sean McCormack defended the US renditions policy Wednesday; "As a theoretical legal matter, I understand the practice of renditions is one that is recognized by the international system," he said.
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hmm, how many other countries would agree that Kidnap and torture was legal, let alone acceptable?
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martin_e

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Barclay (Dark Angel) said:
In briefings officials said she would remind European ministers that their governments had cooperated in anti-terror operations with the US."

You bloody what? Remind the European Govts about what? It sounds a bit like, "if I'm going down, you're going down with me". It's definitely an implied threat. Well fuck you Condi!

Fortunately this threat which is basically "keep your mouths shut" to national governments - is already outdated. Now the Council of Ministers, the international press, the EU and others are pressing for information it'll be a lot harder to keep the clamour down.

But if nothing else it'll shame those governments who are pathetically pandering to the US's New World Order!
 
D

dave arc-i

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perhaps this then might turn out to be the undoing of the US administration - this is international law that they shouldn't be able to hold any influence over........ it should at least be interesting to watch it as it unfolds, at the very least we can hope for some major US embarrasment
 

Barclay (Dark Angel)

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sqoo said:
Good article on how it is backfiring:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/120405G.shtml

basically it looks like all that torture the CIA have been doing/outsourcing means that charges are not gonna stick as all the 'evidence' aquired becomes absolutely worthless!


Well, I guess that's something - though not a lot.

But it's largely worthless as intelligence as well. It amazes me that the US apparently don't know that people will say almost anything to stop the pain they suffer under torture - true or not.

They just don't learn, do they. They lost the Vietnam War largely because they lost the hearts and minds battle, and they're doing exactly the same thing again. Sheesh!!! And in the meantime the hand of the terrorist grows ever stronger.

Brilliant!

Hugs,

Barclay
 

Barclay (Dark Angel)

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This from the Beeb website...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4499648.stm

"US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has admitted that terror suspects are flown abroad for interrogation, but denied they were tortured."

Oh yeah, so why send them abroad then?

It's not exactly as though this administration can be believed, is it? WMDs? What WMDs? Torture at Abu Graib? White Phosphorous? Terror suspects sent abroad? The list is in danger of becoming endless.

Hugs,

Barclay
 

Barclay (Dark Angel)

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Ha! Gotcha UK and USA.

The very excellent Channel 4 News has come up with this taken from the "Snowmail" I get every day :-

"We have a major exclusive tonight following hard on the heels of Condoleezza Rice's claim in Germany that the United States does not torture. We have an exclusive interview with Lord Steyn who recently retired as a law lord in Britain's Supreme Court and stills sits there on a part-time basis.

Lord Steyn declares that American's definition of torture is ridiculously tight (requiring as it does the death or organ failure of the tortured person before it is defined as such) . He argues that the US is almost certainly in breach of the wider definition of torture that is enshrined in the UN Torture Treaty to which the Americans and Britain's are signatures.

Lord Steyn believes that in incarcerating prisoners at Guantanamo and in so-called 'black sites' whose whereabouts are unknown, and in secretly transporting prisoners from place to place, the US may be committing war crimes. Lord Steyn's view is that if British ministers have given approval for any of these activities they too may be guilty of war crimes.

This is incredibly strong stuff, the like of which it is rare indeed to hear a law lord spell out. It's a remarkable interview at seven."


And here's a URL to the transcript of the interview. I beg you to read it. It cuts to the very heart of the matter, exposing the lawlessness of the USA, and the possibility in the UK of War Crime being commited by the Govt.

It really is a landmark interview...

http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=1284

Hugs Peeps,

Barclay
 

Sachmo

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The US maintains that while extraordinary rendition does occur, suspects involved are not tortured in any way. The question then begs to be asked - why on Earth are they being removed from American soil!?! Surely something is happening overseas that might not otherwise be allowed in America.....
 

Barclay (Dark Angel)

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It all depends on the definition of torture, ssac. As the Snowmail says...

"Lord Steyn declares that American's definition of torture is ridiculously tight (requiring as it does the death or organ failure of the tortured person before it is defined as such) . He argues that the US is almost certainly in breach of the wider definition of torture that is enshrined in the UN Torture Treaty to which the Americans and Britain's are signatures. "

So whilst the US and Rice aren't exactly lying, they're certainly not telling the entire truth - which in my eyes adds up to the same thing, and is the reason why Rice won't take questions and/or won't answer questions directly on the matter.

The bottom line is this. By any normal standards and definitions, the USA is a nation that tortures prisoners.

Hugs,

Barclay
 

grokit23

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I was most pleased when the British Law Lords confirmed this morning that any statement given under torture was inadmissable and could not be constituted as evidence in anyway. :Smile3:

Not so happy then when Blair and cronies spent most of the rest of the day trying to deny that it (torture) could have happened. Pleased again when the foreign office turned round and said, guess what, well actually it is possible that it may have happened.
 

ChrisCabbage

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Jack Straw said on "Today" this morning that an investigation hadn't shown any requests from the US for this kind of activity (i.e. planes re-fuelling at UK airports etc.) under the Bush government.

However, what I read into that is/was: there have been no *official* requests and therefore no paperwork.

As Mr. Humphries pointed out: plane spotters got the numbers of the CIA aircraft, so they have been landing.

Mr. Straw didn't really have a satisfactory answer for that (to my mind at any rate).
 
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