Should Iran go nuke....? Discuss...

D

dave arc-i

Guest
Urk said:
Just finished an excelt article in the Gaurdiqan on the subject of proliferation....

The treaty wreckers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1540655,00.html

it doesnt surprise me that we are finally getting our act together over nukes!

since the days of polaris and now trident we have to get peermission to launch from the US as the weapons were sold to us on that basic understanding.

Independent deterent - what complete bollocks

menawhile back on topic - i think if the iranians restart their nuke programme then US will go in and use that as the excuse to try to kick their butts - simple - it would be like waving a red rag at a demented bull
 

Goz

Psy-Richard
Staff member
Forum Supporter
Have you ever heard of "Sunburn"?

http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm

There are good reasons why the US can't do a standard invasion or Iran. But they have a forward base in Iraq now. So what are the Iranians to do? Nuclear Deterrent seems the only other option now ...

Maybe im a bit cruel but id love to see the americans take an aircraft carrier into the gulf to attack Iran. They think their losses in Iraq are costly ...
 

deadgirl

Dead inside
i see little people
 
D

dave arc-i

Guest
thats makes for very iinteresting reading Goz - and i love the irony of the russians having an opportunity to see missiles undo the US in the same way US missiles stuffed the russians in afghanistan

scary scenario though - remember in the early 80's when the israelis stuffed the iraqi reactor? - they are the one group in the middle east that cannot afford the arab states to go nuclear and their track record says they wont sit on their hands if they think iran is getting anywhere near building a nuke
 

Urk

Total Member
deadgirl said:
i see little people

Your gonna be seeing stars unless you make a valid contribution.....*















* That was just to make the Do smile you understand
 

Stuoolong

Professionally fluffy
Found this fascinating article in the Asia Times that gives lots of historical and geographical perspective on this.

I was particularly interested in the status of Iran around Asia. It has a long economic and political friendship with China, and has recently become a full member of the Shanghai Cooperative Organisation (SCO - includes Russia, China, Uzbekistan and others), a political alliance of Asian States who are starting to kick the US bases out of their territories. It also has a long oil relationship with India and Pakistan, both nuclear weapons capable.

It seems to me that if the US decide to attack Iran, Iran will not be alone in it's defence.

:scream::scream::scream::runaway::runaway::eek::eek::eek:
 
Yeah, in my view any further US aggression against predominantly Islamic states will result in WWIII. However, there'll be a huge difference between that war and the previous 2 world wars. The Islamic world and their allies know they can't possibly win a conventional war with the US and its allies, so it's likely to be more cunning in the way it's waged. Of course, the effect will be just the same. Lots of people dead...

In the meantime expect further polarisation of opinion. State media will be controlled far more than now, and any contrary view will be not only censored, but also the subject of legal action. We're seeing the start of that happening now. You'll be working "for the state", and you'll be expected to make huge sacrifices in every area of your lives. "for the good of the state".

It all boils down to one thing. Control. Which is the neo-cons declared intent.

Still, I reckon all this is just the opening skirmishes. Just wait 'til oil supplies fall. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Someone above mentioned US bases in Iraq threatening Iran. They also threaten Saudi Arabia. That's what really frightens me...

In the meantime we all know that Israel possesses "nucular" weapons. For a while they were able to deceive the world about them, until that total hero Mordechai Venunu spilt the beans. Nothing was done about that weapon capability. Now how do you think that looks in the Arab world?

Besides, the genies out of the bottle, and as time progresses more states will acquire nuclear capability. Are they all going to be considered "rogue states"? I see a 1984 scenario developing here, where we're in a perpetual state of war. How convenient for some...

Hugs,

Barclay
 

RedZebra

Member
Goz said:
Have you ever heard of "Sunburn"?

http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm

There are good reasons why the US can't do a standard invasion or Iran. But they have a forward base in Iraq now.


Wow! Interesting article.

In combination with the Guardian article it's pretty scary.
And I guess everyone saw the recent revelations about how it was Britain who supplied Israel with an essential ingredient in developing their nuclear capability.

hmmm. I wonder if there's any country that wouldn't be involved in WWIII.

And if I can get a one way ticket there...
 

jimmy3000

One setting, total
Iran scares the shit out of me because the level of brainwashing of there population is imense.

The whole cult of the suicide bomber came from Iran, during the Iran Iraq war.

What would have happened if the 9/11 bombers had had access to an atomic bomb? Would you trust the future of the world to the fact that they would not have used it?

A nuclear warhead can be carried in a suitcase.

Bear in mind that as non Muslims we are infidels, our lives are worth nothing to the hardline Iranians. The west is the "Great Satan" This is a whole society that has been brainwashed to detest the west.

Can we rest easy knowing that the Western society might be punished by Iran for its terrible crimes like inventing modern medicine and technology. The worst crime of the West is Third world poverty, it is a disgrace. Muslim hatred of the West does not speak about this it is always the religious fanaticism.

I feel strongly about this. I expect that gobal warming will be the main threat to the world but this Iran nuclear situation is not far behind as being one of the biggest treats to our plannet.
 
Interesting that you should say we're pro fanatical muslims. Is everyone who condemns the actions of the States pro Islam? You're making a supposition that's incorrect. You might like to revise it.

What's your evidence re suicide bombing? I suggest it was around long before the Iran/Iraq war. You might like to have a look at some history books. Whilst you're about it, you might like to consider that it was developed nations that invented Total War.

What do you think is the greatest destabilising force in the world today? Iran who do nothing outside their borders, or the USA which wages illegal wars, is trying to undermine international courts, including the court of human rights, rips up every international treaty it's entered that doesn't suit it, is constantly involved in trade wars, is *still* developing its nuclear arsenal, and which refuses to recognise environmental change and global warming?

Jimmy, I don't think there's one person here that wouldn't condemn attacks on innocent civilians. Now consider this, the US has killed tens of thousands of innocent people. Let me ask you some questions. How do you feel about that? How would you feel if a member of your family was killed? What would you do about it?

In short the US applies one law to itself, and quite another for others. So, I ask again, who's the destabilising force?

The US says it's the upholder and champion of the democratic free world. Do you agree?

Maybe now you're getting a taste of why people hate the USA - just as much as they hate suicide bombing.

The fact is that nuclear weapons are an abomination - no matter who has them - and that trying to prevent Iran from acquiring Nuclear capability is as much use as trying to hold back the tide. Or do you think the US should occupy any country it doesn't like, and which looks as though it might acquire WMDs. If Iraq is anything to go by, and I think it is, that's a short cut to an almighty clusterfuck.

Sorry, but you need to think way beyond US propaganda. As for brainwashing, I reckon you need look no further than the USA for text book examples of how it should be done.

Hugs,

Barclay
 

rcain

Member
Barclay (Dark Angel) said:
...

Sorry, but you need to think way beyond US propaganda. As for brainwashing, I reckon you need look no further than the USA for text book examples of how it should be done.
...

...tru, but before u wash it, u must 1st possess a brain...
 

jimmy3000

One setting, total
Fair point about the pro Muslim, I edited that out even before reading your post as it was stupid.

That thing about the Iran Iraq war and the cult of the suicide bomber is the real deal, absolutely true. it is not the only example of suicide war as you say, but it is hugely significant in Muslim terms.

How would I feel if the US had killed thousands of my fell countrymen? I would probably aim to develop nuclear weapons and let them slip into hands of a terrorists group and let them punish the US for there crimes.


One thing though that to me it makes a big difference is the intention of the person. If a policeman is involved with a shootout with a hostage taker and the policeman accidentally hits a bystander. your argument seem to be that there is no difference between him and a person committing premeditated murder of an innocent person. There is a diffence.

With all its faults American policy there does seem to be the vaguest thread of democracy and moral framework. diplomacy is used before force. I'm from the UK and while I would not know if I had been brainwashed think I am speaking for myself.
 

Technognome

Professor of Ecognomics
I don't think there's one person here that wouldn't condemn attacks on innocent civilians.

Actually there's me - I find the term innocent civilians moraly repugnant.

I condem all attacks on every living thing. Doesn't matter to me wether they are civilian or military, innocent or guilty. I refuse to play the innocent civilian NLP game.

PHLUR :sun:
 

trancetheory

♥♪♫
Iran scares the shit out of me because the level of brainwashing of there population is imense.

:lol1: thats what the UK and US governments want you to think, Iran is probably more open than the UK and US, at least they dont pretend to be a democratic state

I think Iran has the right to Nuclear Energy as much as anyone else, as for Nuclear weapons, well no one has the right to make those, obviuosly the people who are prepered to build these things have never really looked much past the 'cool mushroom cloud' and thought about what it actualy does. Anyone who makes these weapons, as far as I am concered, are murderus scum.

Now consider this, the US has killed tens of thousands of innocent people.

x10^100

America should dismantle its nukes, along with every other country that has them, I think it is totaly rediculus they expect people to not make them, when they use it as a threat to the world every day.

I wonder how the hell they can think they are responsible enough to handle somthing so danerous, when they cant even co-ordinate an evacuation from the path of a Level 5 Hurricane...O I forgot, New Orleans is full of poor black people isnt it, for some reason I keep thinking the USA is a free democratic state, where everyone is equal
 

rcain

Member
[
someone else - Barclay (i think) said:
I don't think there's one person here that wouldn't condemn attacks on innocent civilians.
Technognome said:
Actually there's me - I find the term innocent civilians moraly repugnant.

I condem all attacks on every living thing. Doesn't matter to me wether they are civilian or military, innocent or guilty. I refuse to play the innocent civilian NLP game.

PHLUR

...now how do i get the feeling u actually mean something else...

a) you've intentionally misconstrued the (BDA's) original sense, disingenuously introducing a totally different subject, to-boot...
b) i seriously doubt wether u have any morals to repug.
c) what bollox is this that you wouldnt attack any living thing....then u deserve to die under a hail of terrorist bullets...imho...as an innocent, unarmed civilian, if u so wish.

luv n stuff...

(ps. .. BDA now seems to think he meant something else anyway...no matter)
 
Jimmy, suicide attacks have been used since wars began, and as the bombers are at war... It is categorically NOT an Islamic phenomenon.

You talk about a moral difference. Have you considered that the US govt has sanctioned campaigns against democratrically elected governments, including the use of mass murder - or that it has financed and armed terrorist organisations, or that it sold WMD capability to "friendly" countries, or that it doesn't even know how many people it's munitions have killed in Iraq, or that it has vetod UN resolutions comdemning Israeli excesses, or that it lied in going to war, or that... There are countless examples I could give.

These aren't the action of some individuals. They're the actions of a democratically elected govt. It IS state sanctioned terror. To use your phrase, it's premeditated murder. Where's the morality there? When it's the policy of the most powerful nation on earth; a nation that pretends to hold the moral high ground, it's not only immoral, it's also hypocritical.

Worse, it's the actions of a govt to benefit the few at the expense of the many.

It's not necessary to hold a gun in order to be deeply immoral. If anything, sending others to do your own dirty work so that there's no risk to yourself makes it even worse - though I concede that's a pretty moot point. Whatever, there's no denying it's the action of a bully and a coward.

Hugs,

Barclay
 
rcain...

You know full well that personal attacks aren't allowed here. Your attack on Technognome is not only repugnant, but it's also totally unacceptable.

DON'T do it again.

Barclay
 

rcain

Member
Barclay (Dark Angel) said:
rcain...

You know full well that personal attacks aren't allowed here. Your attack on Technognome is not only repugnant, but it's also totally unacceptable.

DON'T do it again.

Barclay

BDA..you r out of order and please dont tell me what to do...put me ignore if u havnt the stomach for debate......I'm sure TG can look after himself...back 2 the subject
 
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