Should Iran go nuke....? Discuss...

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dave arc-i

Guest
Barclay (Dark Angel) said:
Jimmy, suicide attacks have been used since wars began, and as the bombers are at war... It is categorically NOT an Islamic phenomenon.

yeah what about the kamikazees during wwII? that predates the iran/iraq war by about 40 years
 

jimmy3000

One setting, total
Barclay, have to respectfully disagree with you about the suicide bombers not being an Islamic phenomenon. I might be wrong, I think if there was as poll asking the question a huge majority would agree. Of this time in history right now.

You are quite right America has done some terrible things and has many faults, don't get me started on there environmental policy.

I realise that this is purely in the realm of fantasy, but if there was a war between the Islamic world and the West, who's side would you be on. Would you join and fight a Islamic coalition against America with people you shared your dislike of America?

You criticise America, and make some fair points, but I ask you how should America be punished for its crimes?

In my view America is just acting like people do, mostly with self interest. All the fault and human beings have, they have to. Call me a freak but I would still prefer the US with all its faults that to have the main superpower, rathat than a fundamental Islamic superpower.
 
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dave arc-i

Guest
jimmy3000 said:
Barclay, have to respectfully disagree with you about the suicide bombers not being an Islamic phenomenon. I might be wrong,


i think the previous post by myself moves the suicide bomber back to the second world war and i am sure there are 'probably' other examples from history

jimmy3000 said:
Call me a freak but I would still prefer the US with all its faults that to have the main superpower, rathat than a fundamental Islamic superpower.

in our current world i wouldnt disagree with the point you are making but personally i would rather not be at the mercy of someone who has imo too firmly held religious beliefs - be they muslim fundementalist as in the iranian mullahs or rightwing christian creationists as in george bush and his followers
 
In answer to Jimmy. Have a look at:-

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/C/cult_suicide_bomber/what.html

The relevant part of the text is below.

You go on to qualify your remark, "in history right now". The reason suicide bombing is used as a weapon these days is because it's the only way they can get at the enemy who are usually far stronger in conventional military capability.

You ask if I would fight the USA. The answer is most definitely yes if they were murdering my family. The thing here is that you think in terms of religion. I think in terms of repressed people. The fact that any particular religion is involved is irrelevant.

How should the US be punished for its crimes? Well, waging an aggressive war was the charge at the Nuremburg trials after WW2. We could start there. Fat chance. The USA is doing all it can to render ineffective the International Criminal Court, even going so far as saying they'd use force if necessary if a US citizen was charged and detained by order of the Court.

So yeah, nice example of self interest there...

US Fundamentalist Empire vs Islamic Fundamentalism. I'll have neither.

Hugs,

Barclay


Channel 4 webpage :-

Suicide terror, however, has a longer pedigree. Perpetrators include Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and atheists.

In biblical times the captured Samson brought a temple down, crushing himself and many more Philistines.

In Roman-occupied Judea, nearly 2,000 years ago, Jewish Zealots called Sicari led suicide missions against their oppressors.

During the Crusades the Christian Knights Templar destroyed their own ship killing 140 Christians but vastly more Muslims.

In World War II, Japanese 'kamikaze' pilots, and 'kaitens' – piloted torpedoes – attacked American warships.

The Viet Minh used suicide attacks in their war to liberate Vietnam.

In May 1991 Indian Head of State, Rajiv Ghandi, was assassinated in a suicide bombing carried out by Sri Lanka's Tamil Tigers.
 

Risky

oh go on, just one then..
About the nukes....

Well we've got em....there's nothing to say that they will be any less responsible with them than us.
Nobody wants to use them really, they are just the best deterrent on earth. And to be honest I wouldn't blame them for wanting to go nuke (if they haven't already), the way the US is prancing around the world at the moment.

Nukes are bad
Religion is worse
 

trancetheory

♥♪♫
[quote="USA Declaration of Revocation: John Cleese]
7. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.[/quote]

:irofl: http://www.stephaniemiller.com/declarationofrevocation.htm
 
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dave arc-i

Guest
Risky said:
About the nukes....

Well we've got em....there's nothing to say that they will be any less responsible with them than us.
Nobody wants to use them really, they are just the best deterrent on earth. And to be honest I wouldn't blame them for wanting to go nuke (if they haven't already), the way the US is prancing around the world at the moment.

Nukes are bad
Religion is worse

oh yes so we have - bet you didnt know that authority is required from the US before release of a weapon. Why? That was one of the terms of sale when we bought trident - we had to buy thier bombs as ours (ex polaris) didnt fit in the missiles!

Why are people at aldermarston (home of the glade) jumping up and down - no its not overly loud dance music but in fact a huge extension to the atomic weapons establishment to cope with building our new bomb that is due to replace the UK owned but ulitimately UIS controlled 'independent' detererrent.
 

Risky

oh go on, just one then..
dave arc-i said:
bet you didnt know that authority is required from the US before release of a weapon. Why? That was one of the terms of sale when we bought trident - we had to buy thier bombs as ours (ex polaris) didnt fit in the missiles!

:lol::irolleyes
 

jimmy3000

One setting, total
Interesting point about the channel4 thing, I agree that is true, but what is your point? Are you like that Islamic Mullah in England, who says that there is no proof that the 7/7 London's bombers where Muslim? Or are you defending the long and honourable tradition of suicide attack?


You say that it is their only means to fight the overwhelming power of the west. But how hard done by are they? If they truly believe the will immediately be received into paradise as a suicide bomber, they are longing for an excuse to go to this glorious end. As the nuclear winder rolls in and all life on our planet comes to an end. Feel good about one thing, at least America got its just deserts



 
The point I'm making Jimmy, is that suicide bombing isn't an Islamic phenomenon. Dammit, even the bible glorifies Samson commiting suicide. That's the Christian bible, written way before the rise of Islam.

I'm not glorifying it, and it looks as though the London bombers were Muslims. So what?

Let me make this clear. I DO NOT condone suicide bombing, though I DO understand it. From one of your earlier posts, so do you. I quote your post :-

"How would I feel if the US had killed thousands of my fell countrymen? I would probably aim to develop nuclear weapons and let them slip into hands of a terrorists group and let them punish the US for there crimes."

I really don't know what more to say to you. Your last sentence really isn't worthy of a reply.

Hugs,

Barclay
 

jimmy3000

One setting, total
I think I understand where you are coming from, don't think I am not arguing for the sake of it. My problem is that many in the Islamic world do hate the west very much. And probably have very good reasons for doing so. I don't think bridges will ever be built because of the indoctrination of children in many Muslim countries. And the West will always perhaps rightly be thought of as evil decadent and corrupt.

Like it or not if Iran get nuclear weapons the have the power to end life on this planet. Of cause you say they would not let then get into the hands of suicide bombers. A country whose official policy is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Please bear in mind that it is very likely that there are people in Iran who are as bad as Rumsfelt and Bush.
 

lala69

51% Sweetheart,49% Bitch
Um (I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if I'm repeating) but why should ANY country have the right to own nuclear and/biological weapons. The US is making a big noise about N. Korea having them, and the possibility that Iran might... but I don't see them going: we'll disarm as an act of good faith. They've had excuses since the first world war ended. Disarmament failed... so now we have a situation where you have a trigger happy country off to "save the world" (and make money by doing so) and people who radically hate the west and may want to blow it up. Better the devil you know?
 
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