simulating a big system

Fromem_Ory

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hey everyone
i'm getting my music to a pretty good quality at the moment, not too far off proffessional level. the problem i keep on having is, what sounds great on my monitors doesnt necessarily sound great on a 5k rig. obviously me asking what to change would be an impossible question, but does anyone have any ideas/experience on how i can better simulate the sound of a bigger system? i get plenty of ideas when i do actually play my tracks through a big system, but thats hardly a weekly occurence. I have a live set at Glade to prepare and i need to start making the tunes slightly more big-speaker-friendly. for i've thought about monitoring on the little kitchen stereo...
 

Abstraction

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someone posted a link to something called "sound system modeller" or something a while back but i dont know how good reliable it is. but i cant seem to find it on google atm
 

nomis

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Abstraction

happy juice
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also im guessing you can use convolution reverb plugins to model a big rig. i know they have been used to model certain mic pre-amps and stuff so i assume it would work. maybe someone a bit more clued up than me could say if this would work?

btw congratulations on getting a set at the glade dude!
 

soliptic

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there's no substitute for playing them over a pa. pa's are physical. whatever tacky little eq curve you put over the signal to your wee nearfields, you can't "simulate" that :Smile3:
 

Fromem_Ory

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soliptic said:
there's no substitute for playing them over a pa. pa's are physical. whatever tacky little eq curve you put over the signal to your wee nearfields, you can't "simulate" that :Smile3:
yeah i agree partly. i have found that everything that goes wrong on a PA also sounds a bit sketchy on my headphones, i.e. the kicks too hard, or sounds too harsh etc... so now i mix through my monitors, then home stereo to brush out anything which sounds wrong on that, then the headphones for any sounds too harsh, then a final sweep on monitors. alot of work but its worth it in my opinion.
 

soliptic

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Fromem_Ory said:
yeah i agree partly. i have found that everything that goes wrong on a PA also sounds a bit sketchy on my headphones, i.e. the kicks too hard, or sounds too harsh etc... so now i mix through my monitors, then home stereo to brush out anything which sounds wrong on that, then the headphones for any sounds too harsh, then a final sweep on monitors. alot of work but its worth it in my opinion.

yup exactly. if you mix it so it sounds "good" on pretty much any monitor / hi-fi / cacky shower radio / headphones / car stereo you can lay your hands on, you'll probably find it sounds ok on a PA. whereas if you tie yourself up in knots trying to work out exactly what to do to get it sound a certain way specifically "on a PA", which you dont have (!!), then you're barking up the wrong tree methinks. all PAs sound different anyway. :Smile3:
 

bez23

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Turn up early at club nights, offer to help with decor or whatever, if you ask nice maybe you can slip your tune on the big rig, give it a good listen, make some notes... ask for some objective opinions... possible. Some knowledgeable folks may just appear out of the woodwork and give good advice too, y'never knows.
Even just getting a 2 minute blast of your tune before the doors open can reveal a helluva lot.
 
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Ott^

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Just make sure your sub-bass is under control.

The one thing an 18" bass driver can do that your monitors can't is reproduce 10hz at high volume.

Colin is right though - there is no substitute for trusting your studio speakers.
 

JPsychodelicacy

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Ott^ said:
Just make sure your sub-bass is under control.

The one thing an 18" bass driver can do that your monitors can't is reproduce 10hz at high volume.

And how do we do that? :Smile3:

Is there some kind of ballpark amount of sub we should be aiming for (Aside from in trance where there's actually not that much, if what I've heard is to be believed) ?
 

Continuum

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Seems sensible to me to do some kind of 'preventative' eq on your mix and progressively roll off everything below 100Hz.
In my experience, especially for the doof doof, there's nothing much but mud down there anyway. Maybe one thing (kick or bass) can be allowed to have some presence around 30-50Hz, but you have to be really careful...
 

nik

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for psy youve got a sine wave for yer kick you dont really need to add or take away from that...its just pure sub bass, the only sub bass. you want a nice n smooth oscillation there, yer base frequency hitting 0db on the sample level. There really is no way you can go wrong!
Why would it? Your merely playing a sine wave through a PA - all good PAs can do that. The only reason why it may sound too 'boomy' is because of the room, or, there isnt enough people in the room soaking it up.
so you got yer sub kick sorted you then mix your bass relative to that.
mud is yer low mids 300hz - 500hz.
everything below 100hz is what you can feel, if you dont wanna feel it then roll it off and we can bang on again about how psy has no real bass!
 

Continuum

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nik said:
for psy youve got a sine wave for yer kick you dont really need to add or take away from that...its just pure sub bass, the only sub bass. you want a nice n smooth oscillation there, yer base frequency hitting 0db on the sample level. There really is no way you can go wrong!
Why would it? Your merely playing a sine wave through a PA - all good PAs can do that. The only reason why it may sound too 'boomy' is because of the room, or, there isnt enough people in the room soaking it up.
so you got yer sub kick sorted you then mix your bass relative to that.
mud is yer low mids 300hz - 500hz.
everything below 100hz is what you can feel, if you dont wanna feel it then roll it off and we can bang on again about how psy has no real bass!


Ohhh OK, sorry my mistake. "hitting 0db on the sample level". Gotcha. I'll keep an eye out for that, and boomy rooms.

:silly:
 

soliptic

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JPsychodelicacy said:
And how do we do that? :Smile3:

Is there some kind of ballpark amount of sub we should be aiming for (Aside from in trance where there's actually not that much, if what I've heard is to be believed) ?

thats where this bit comes in:

"there's no substitute for playing them over a pa. pa's are physical."

you need to *feel* whether the sub is right or not. in my experience, the more common outcome of "beginners" (ie people who havent played their stuff on pa's ever before) is to have way too much sub - on a big system it's all bass, no tops, and sounds like its coming from under a pillow. it just takes plenty of practice/experience with PAs until you instinctively know an appropriate level, i couldnt really answer that question in text form on here.

bez's advice is spot-on:

"Turn up early at club nights, offer to help with decor or whatever, if you ask nice maybe you can slip your tune on the big rig, give it a good listen, make some notes... ask for some objective opinions... possible. Some knowledgeable folks may just appear out of the woodwork and give good advice too, y'never knows.
Even just getting a 2 minute blast of your tune before the doors open can reveal a helluva lot"

i've blagged this countless times, and it's absolutely invaluable :Smile3:
 

Fromem_Ory

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AlternateContinuum said:
Ohhh OK, sorry my mistake. "hitting 0db on the sample level". Gotcha. I'll keep an eye out for that, and boomy rooms.

:silly:

lol dude haha
yeah i think the blagging time on a rig is the best suggestion really... i do have some time on a rig in the coming months but there mite be a few hundred people too so mite want to leave the soundcrafting till another time. now if only i had some friends, who lived in a big house in the kentish countryside, and had a whole mackie active system set up in their front room!:Wink3: if only...
peeeace
alex
 

JPsychodelicacy

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AlternateContinuum said:
Ohhh OK, sorry my mistake. "hitting 0db on the sample level". Gotcha. I'll keep an eye out for that, and boomy rooms.

Am I weird for actually understanding what he said?

Cheers Nik, I'll use that theory along with hopefully blagging some PA time.

:Grin:

J.
 

Continuum

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JPsychodelicacy said:
Am I weird for actually understanding what he said?

Nope. You're weird for all kinds of other reasons.

I understood what he said, but I think he's grossly oversimplifying a complex issue, and the delivery was somewhat arrogant, which always puts my back up.
 

nik

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AlternateContinuum said:
Ohhh OK, sorry my mistake. "hitting 0db on the sample level". Gotcha. I'll keep an eye out for that, and boomy rooms.

:silly:

sorry that should have been -0db....we were looking for a ballpark figure no?

obviously this is a bit more complicated than i first thought!

nice website.
 
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