So - I've just tried Ableton Live 5 for DJing

ChrisCabbage

Forum Member
Just tried the demo.

Anyone else tried this?

Seems *possible* to beatmatch, but it's very fiddly.

If you don't use warp, and just pitch it - it has to be done the old-fashioned way.

Either warping or pitching seem to apply artifacts I don't get with CDJs (and obviously not with vinyl).

I'm guessing this is because the clock is still 44khz for the track, and the software is having to do clever resampling.

I have a feeling that CDJs actually drive a hardware clock's rate digitally, so that you're getting the same number of samples faster or slower. Anyone know if that's he case or not? Either that, or the resampling is *very*good on the CDJs.

Any tips for DJing with Live? Have to say that it's unlikely I'll use it, but I'm interested in the techniques.
 

ChrisCabbage

Forum Member
Actually Colin, I'm having better results with repitch.

Still - the resolution on the nudge is quite coarse. Any clever ways to nudge backwards / forwards with reasonably fine granularity?
 

Faction

Proto-col
If you beatmap your tracks first, beatmatching should be a total doddle, and require no nudging at all. Try using global quantise set to 1 beat.
 

ChrisCabbage

Forum Member
Heheh - someone on the Ableton site just suggested that.

For a long-in-the-tooth DJ, it doesn't half seem the *wrong* way to do it!

One more problem though - EQing whilst cross-fading. I can do it in the hardware world, but there's only one mouse pointer!
 

Faction

Proto-col
Mate, the only point of using software is to make your life easier. Sounds like you're too wedded to the idea of CDJs to consider anything that gives you a helping hand a legitimate tool.

As for EQing while crossfading, that's what hardware controllers are for.

Use the brain, man, use the brain... :p
 

psyfi

Pie Fly
I hold up my hands and say that I am a TOTAL non DJ. I had some deks once but lent them to a friend and never got them back but Alberton lets anyone DJ and have FX on the sends play vst's and control it all through midi. What could be easier? I don't see where your haveing problems.
 

ChrisCabbage

Forum Member
Colin OOOD said:
Mate, the only point of using software is to make your life easier. Sounds like you're too wedded to the idea of CDJs to consider anything that gives you a helping hand a legitimate tool.

As for EQing while crossfading, that's what hardware controllers are for.

Use the brain, man, use the brain... :p

I know, I know (I mentioned I'm long in the tooth above).

:Wink3:

I kind of hoped there'd be a way to do these things without the need for controller(s). I'm probably quite capable of working these things out for myself Colin, but I'm looking to fast-track my knowledge. Hope that's not a problem!?

:Wink3:

There are definite advantages to the CD route though. Someone can sling me a CD at a party and I can throw it in the mix without having to pre-process it on my laptop first (setting markers etc.). E.g. Panos (who worked with Wizzy Noise and was at college in Leeds) would bring fresh tracks down and hand them to me as I was performing. I'd preview them in the background and lob them into the mix. Wouldn't have been possible on a laptop.

In fact - I usually get a fresh crop of CDs just before an event, which might be say: 15 CDs at 8+ tracks apiece. I really don't want to have to pull all those tracks onto my laptop and then go through and start mucking about with cue points. It would take a *long* time to set up (time I don't have).

Also - with Live, I'd be kind of locked into the cue point per track using the pre-cued idea. If I'm mixing 2 tracks together for the first time, the *shape* of the kick per track might mean it would need adjusting just a little bit. That's relatively easy on vinyl & CDJ since it's all done dynamically. When I say *shape*, I generally mean that high frequency component of some kick drums that's over a very short period. Matching those together on 2 tracks using a similar sound is one of the hardest parts of mixing psy. Easy on the fly, but I'm really not sure I'd trust Live to do that with pre-setup alignment. I've worked with various people who use Live and guess what - that's the issue they've all fallen down on.

I'm really not averse to the idea of DJing (my bread & butter) via laptop per se, but for *my* style, I don't think we're quite there yet with Live.

I've been using CD & vinyl for years. It'd be a bit like asking an acoustic guitar player to start using electric. The concept's almost the same, but it's a different beast.

Live seems like a fantastic tool for playing live sets for sure, but as for DJing with it - not for me I'm afraid (yet).

I might invest in it as a performance tool first and see how we go from there.
 

ChrisCabbage

Forum Member
Just thought of something else.

Maybe I could use CDJs *and* Live!? After all, I use vinyl *and* CD (or at least did until fairly recently).

If I can't properly *nudge* live, I can't beatmatch.

Although - an improved nudge/jog mechanism could sort out all the issues for me!?
 

ChrisCabbage

Forum Member
Also kinda my point CYHTG. It's not a package aimed at DJ's as such (Ableton have specifically said so too) - more of a live performance thing. Which is cool - that's useful to me too.

People do seem to be touting it as a DJ tool though.

I personally think it's got a little way to go if it's going to replace vinyl and CDs.

Of course there is other DJ software out there, designed for the job...
 

Faction

Proto-col
Fair play... I see your point about nudging. I don't know the details but I gather Live v5 has much better beat-recognition and auto-beatmapping features that might be of assistance for playing new tracks on the fly, but it certainly does sound like you really benefit from the more tactile user-interface of CDJs (and that's not something I ever expected to say with a straight face! :p ) because of the spontaneous nature of what you do. It might well not be the right tool for the way you DJ, and I'm sorry if I implied it was earlier. What works - works... New formats make available new techniques and tricks which you can add to your armoury as you see fit, but no way should they replace the old ones!

:Smile3:
 
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