The 30hz Hi Pass Trick

psyfi

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your mum said:
Defo. I've only put high pass filters on the bass on the few trance tunes I've done. Although catering for P.A.s, is not really "2nd guessing" especially when most FOH people have a high-pass on the omnidrive at 35-40Hz to avoid overloading the amps, wouldn't you say? I just finished a new one and the guy I sent it to, was not happy with the fact that I did not high pass the bassline around 50Hz (wtf?). Apparently sub is redundant in "modern" trance releases (WTF?!). They should sound "clean" and anything below 50Hz makes the tune sound "low and slow" and the bass does not "sing" :lol:
I've never high passed the bass on the breakbeat tunes I've been involved with and rarely high pass the kick. I like sub, I can hear at home and I make music for my self before anyone else and it sucks that I have to compromise for label people and their "modern ideas".
I know I am going a little bit off topic, but there is a need for "bass" education, today. Most people like the bass to have no bottom end and sound like VB-1 :rolleyes:
/rant
It's a good rant/point you make though. More and more my bass has been moving down in the frequencies and IMHO it's sounding better compared to my early atempts where I use to high pass the bass to stand clear of the kick. I no longer do this. I also no longer notch out low esctions of the bass where I want the kick subs to come through as the fase shift this creats is massive. Much more I look at the length of my kicks and bass notes and use subtle eq if any down in the lows. Why would I want to get rid of them theres so much good stuff going on down there.
 

norty303

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If you're going to make up your own filters then its good to stay within multiples of 24db/oct on the slopes. This is because every 6db/oct introduces 90 degrees of phase shift, so using 24, 48, etc is good.

On the sound system bit, generally the hi pass will be 24 or 48 db/oct link/rei or butterworth filters.
 

Speakafreaka

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Out of interest, is this no zero Q and therefore phase misallingment the reason we have to be careful with multiband compression (ie the band splitting screws things up?)

Sorry eating a red hot goddam chilli pizza burning my mouth off argh!
 

ichabod

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The only multiband I've used is the waves one which I think is linear phase anyway...

On a side note, I have just had a go with the Waves L3 Multimaximiser - it seems extremely useful. You can set a kind of priority ratio for each of the 5 bands and it uses an intelligent algorithm to allocate the limiting to each band depending on the ratios.

I have had a go using it on the whole mix and setting the LF bands to high priority so that the limiting doesn't distort the kick and bass when other sounds come in over the top.. with the aim of ensuring that they always cut through. Is this a wise plan? Has anyone else had a go wityh the L3?
 

soliptic

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Speakafreaka said:
Is this a good plan or not to put over your entire mix?

I've heard it said that because nearly all VST EQs don't do zero 'Q', that this is a bad idea, as you can end up changing the sound of the bass in an additive way, and therefore it should be left to the pros in their fancy pants mastering studios. :irolleyes

i'm going to go along with this, and add that if you hp individual elements appropriately, there shouldnt be any need
 

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if you going to play your tunes out of big rigs, which is the case with trance it is a must to do the cut its another crucial production technique that is so quick but enhances the clarity of the track. you want to be using a cut as apposed to a high pass on the final master.
 

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up dog!
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your right they are the same to a point, but if you are placing a low cut on the final master you want it to be as definied as it can be hence a low cut is preferable as the q value is usually more rigid/ than a high pass (where you can adhust the curve more). but really the whole issue is that if you only intend on have your music played on small system then theres no need for it but for the big systems little things at home make the biggest difference when blasted out of a 30ksystem.

coolio.

:clublase:
 

Gibbonflux

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Personally I find that a lot of VSTis and virtual analogue synths can produce subsonic artifacts, so I tend to submix everything to groups and HPF the groups with leads etc. in...but not the kick or bass...just on the offchance that it gets played through a rig with some of those nice Funktion 1 infra bass units. Yum.

As a sidenote, try listening to the mix through a 80-120Hz low pass filter. That way you can listen to the part of the spectrum that people physically feel on the dancefloor...unmasked by the upper frequencies
 

your mum

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Insane Machine said:
I read somewhere that if you have too much sub on your track it can trigger the limiter on some rigs and make the track quieter than it should be, anyone know if this is true?
It is.
 

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up dog!
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if you cut your final mix at 29hhz on a massive system your going to feel the love, pick your favorite track that you feel delivered the goods, chuck it into en eq analyser and have a look, she'll have been cut below the waste no doubt. feeling bass is also about your patch/key etc not just whether its really really low.

l8ers
 

Speakafreaka

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Beatnik gave me a hand and second set of ears with the whole EQ thing last night, so in terms of my track, the mix is sounding much better now! Can't thank Beatnik enough for having a listen, it really has made a very positive difference.

It staggers me how much difference of opinion there is out there though!! I would like to contribute in technical aspects to this thread, but am waaaaaay out of my depth, I'd just be phishing, lol.

Anyway Good Thread
 

soliptic

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Insane Machine said:
I read somewhere that if you have too much sub on your track it can trigger the limiter on some rigs and make the track quieter than it should be, anyone know if this is true?

yes
 

nik

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ive had some tracks professionally mastered and on the engineer's manley gear he flips a 20hz highpass and 20khz low pass as standard on every track he does.
Id be careful doing it yourself as applying a low cut with 'normal' eq fucks up the rest of the track and creates phase problems which some mistakenly interpret as a 'cleaner' bottom end.
like beatnik said go with the lineq if your doing a diy mastering job its the best out there one out there and also very good at enhancing bottom end too.
 

nik

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i dont think that people can really percieve sound musically at that high of a frequency and perhaps the idea is just to 'tighten' the spectrum of sound. There may be some other more techincal reason for doing this - perhaps asscociated the ceratin equipment that is used, not sure....
 

BeatNik

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hmm if you have the LP cutoff from 20k you'll end up with the curve of the LP still letting through frequencies above that... maybe it's just a way to reduce those frequencies and tightening up the truly audible spectrum?

If however the frequencies above 20k are all cut out, i don't know why it'd be done... it'd surprise me abit though :Grin:

Would like to know
 
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