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Nanook said:
No deal.
I'll pass comment on any artist if I so choose.
Man, woman or anywhere inbetween.

Your opinions, on MY opinions, don't matter to me.
...and some inane, angry, misguided, irony-soaked midnight rambling won't change that.
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Oooh, the angry woman trope! This is like reading a textbook on how not to deal with objections to bullish male privilege, a term I almost never use, because I don’t actually like it, yet here we are.

“Leave me alone.”

“Then stop making dumb comments about women.”

“NO!”

Poor little manbaby. (See? I can do tropes too…)

I don’t think you actually understand what irony means, Chris, much like I don’t think you understand sarcasm, feminism or anything else about what I’ve said or why. It’s become increasingly obvious that you won’t engage because you can’t, acting as if it’s beneath you, when the truth is, the whole thing went right over your head. (cf. bizarre misappropriation of “white lives matter”).

It’s inconceivable to you that maybe there are things you can’t possibly understand about women’s experience in the arts and still need to learn, perhaps the life coach mentality?? I’m not sure, but the hypocrisy of you describing my objections as an attack, having already trotted out a string of gender-based criticisms such as, “so many of her contemporaries” and “she falls into the pouty bracket I mentioned earlier” is staggering.

Moreover, when your primary response to a female musician speaking up about how disparaging remarks about female musicians of this kind are not only offensive, but potentially damaging is to stonewall her, report the post in which she expands on her position and describes some of that history (yes, I noticed scrolling back), then cite all the things you allegedly don’t have time to talk about and have supposedly done for women says way more than any “twenty reasons” you could have put forth. WHAT A HERO! lmao

Let’s be honest, neither of has come off particularly well here, the difference being you’re increasingly behaving like a boneheaded sexist and a wilfully ignorant one at that, then expecting me, the only regular female poster on the wider forum, to shut the fuck up so you can get on with it. That is never gonna happen unless I’m outright banned and if calling you out for this crap means I’m perceived as a dragon by some, it was still worth doing and always will be.
 
But hey, apparently it's fine to make disparaging comments about women - how positive! - then shush the sole person who objects. Good luck with your reports, Chris. You have shown your true colours in this thread and I for one will not forget it, even if others can ignore or brush it off.
 
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floatyhippyflower said:
Did yours?
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Nicely dodged.
.
In answer to your question, did my posts create anything positive?
...I doubt it...
And whilst they're adults and can talk for themselves if they so choose..
I'd guess that between us....all we achieved was just making Bez and Jim, and a few others that share this thread....likely feel a bit awkward and cringy.
.
.
Whilst you're talking "true colours" ...
....Remember that works both ways, and it takes 2 to tango.
.
If I'll be remembered for making a comment about a woman's teeshirt choice and pouting...
....Let it be remembered that you insinuated a dude is chauvinist, even when he makes equally disparaging comments of all genders and ethnicities....
And you also resorted to petty name calling, whilst challenging my method of communication.
(Running out of palms to place on my face here, Rina)
.
.
I've said dumb shit before, and I'll no doubt say it again.
If you DM'd me and pointed it out in a polite way, I'd have removed it, even if I didn't agree - out of respect.

As I have done before with others, and learned from doing so.
I own my mistakes, grow from them, and wear them on my sleeve like a badge of honour.
.....want to remember something? - remember that!
.
Want to act like an angry, aggrieved teenager, that can't communicate sensibly, now we're here.
This one is on you.
 
Please don't bring Bez, Jim or anyone else into this. It is deeply unfair and I'd hazard a guess you do not have their permission.

A man who disparages women for behaving and wearing whatever they like is being sexist, Chris. I've acknowledged it's the thin end of the wedge already, but still very much part of that wedge. Shutting down a woman for speaking up about that is also textbook sexist behaviour, as is mansplaining and "I do so much for women in the arts, therefore I get to dictate the parameters of this discussion". I didn't contact you in private because your posts were public. Stop telling me how to act.

You're right, it does work both ways and no doubt there will be dragon jokes aplenty in the shoutbox after this, but I can take the hit because calling out misogyny is never pointless. If that makes people cringe, maybe they need to ask themselves why.
 
floatyhippyflower said:
Stop telling me how to act.
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I'm not.
This is a huge stumbling block in your logic.

You're ascribing past trauma, to me.
And then focussing on acute semantics to 'prove' that, whilst overlooking my main points.
.
Actually...
....
I give up.

You win.

I concede.

I AM sexist, chauvinist, racist, nationalist....tory... and 100% of everything I've been accused of on this forum in the last 20 years.

.
I feel so much better for admitting that.
I wonder why I didn't do it sooner.

Thanks for making me see the error of my ways, Rina.
I appreciate you.
.
 
OK well im gonna step in and say I agree with FHF.

You do not have to be sexist /chauvinistic/misogynistic/etc to say something that is.

FHF is quite right to call you out for it. I would expect to be called out likewise.
 
Goz said:
OK well im gonna step in and say I agree with FHF.

You do not have to be sexist /chauvinistic/misogynistic/etc to say something that is.

FHF is quite right to call you out for it. I would expect to be called out likewise.
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Think you missed the bit where I concede?

Enough already.
Call me what you want, if it makes you feel better.

...I just want some peace.
.
.
Edit - In fact. ....on that note.
I think this is the nudge I needed to bounce, so gonna delete my account.
Thanks @floatyhippyflower
You just taught me an incredible amount.
Probably not what you expected, or wanted... but I'll learn and grow from this.
And the first lesson, is to just stop hanging around and attempting to engage with people who just don't get you - Life is too short.
I kinda knew... but forced it for ages due to the history of this place.
But hey... can't hold on to that forever. ...and I obviously don't have anything left to offer this place, so yea...Im out.
Despite our difference, good luck in everything you do - I mean that x
 
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Nanook said:
I'm not.
This is a huge stumbling block in your logic.

You're ascribing past trauma, to me.
And then focussing on acute semantics to 'prove' that, whilst overlooking my main points.
.
Actually...
....
I give up.

You win.

I concede.

I AM sexist, chauvinist, racist, nationalist....tory... and 100% of everything I've been accused of on this forum in the last 20 years.

.
I feel so much better for admitting that.
I wonder why I didn't do it sooner.

Thanks for making me see the error of my ways, Rina.
I appreciate you.
.
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I'm not ascribing past trauma to you and have been explicit in stating as much. ("This is not just about my experiences, however – you are very much mistaken in the assumption. There’s now emerging research that simply wasn’t available when I was still going, which shows how harmful such attitudes can be, not just on an emotional level, but in very real, very practical ways." Also, "I will continue to call out this shit for as long as I’m breathing, if only for the sake of others who may not feel strong enough to voice their objections"). Of course, that is not to say my experiences are not relevant - they absolutely are ("It certainly held me back" and "One upon a time, that was me", respectively). This is an all-too common response to women speaking out, sadly.

Acute semantics - I don't even know what that means or how it relates.

You haven't made any points to overlook except to repeatedly state that you object to my objections and I should take it somewhere else, dismissing my concerns as noise, then calling me inane, misguided and all the rest of it. I am not obliged to be "polite" about sexism, as you put it, but would and always will welcome further discussion about the actual issue, which you have wilfully avoided. By your own admission, you didn't have time for your alleged twenty reasons, yet magically found time to write all those objections to my objections.

You also stated that it's "Not because I don't listen, but because (especially when it comes to women in the arts), I think I've done a lot more than I mention publically". Sorry...what?! As you say, I am not privy to any of that and can only respond to how you treated me when I spoke up as a fellow female musician, albeit drawing on the experiences of a few other friends to bolster my position and things I've learned through my buddy's academic research. All is this was made abundantly clear, Chris, but the fact remains, you didn't actually listen.
 
Nanook said:
Think you missed the bit where I concede?

Enough already.
Call me what you want, if it makes you feel better.

...I just want some peace.
.
.
Edit - In fact. ....on that note.
I think this is the nudge I needed to bounce, so gonna delete my account.
Thanks @floatyhippyflower
You just taught me an incredible amount.
Probably not what you expected, or wanted... but I'll learn and grow from this.
And the first lesson, is to just stop hanging around and attempting to engage with people who just don't get you - Life is too short.
I kinda knew... but forced it for ages due to the history of this place.
But hey... can't hold on to that forever. ...and I obviously don't have anything left to offer this place, so yea...Im out.
Despite our difference, good luck in everything you do - I mean that x
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I think everyone still has something to offer, maybe more so when they disagree?? However, if that's your decision on the back of this discussion, then I wish you good luck and mean that too.
 
floatyhippyflower said:
Next up, how sweaty, half-naked Tristan jerking like he’s having a fit behind the decks to the delight of all his slavering minions at Glastonbury probably ought to cover up, said nobody ever…
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Be thankful it's not me half naked behind the decks....I just get criticised for looking miserable. As you were....
 
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