UK recognises China's direct rule over Tibet

JPsychodelicacy said:
So I put it to you - while I agree that the way China has treated Tibet and its citizens has been atrocious, would you be willing to risk losing your job, your house and potentially the ability to feed yourself for the sake of a free Tibet?

J.
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Thats a very good question Joe, and a good answer from Pav.

If WE were honest, deep down, many of us who have become accustomed to living our lives in relative comfort, security and without starvation would prob say no !

After all, who would sacrifice all for a place, that so many would be unable to find on a map.


United we stood.. divided we failed.
 
solar bud said:
Which was my thought exactly actually. :iwink:

Amazing how quickly cherished ideals get sacrificed when the chips are down. Or maybe not. I'm pretty astounded how little attention this seems to have garnered even on forums like this one, where you might expect it to cause a massive fuss.

Free Tibet . . . oh yes I remember that, it was very trendy for a while. How quaint.
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As a matter of sheer practicality, Tibet is a lost cause. It's a bloody shame, it's brutally unfair and wrong, and there is absolutely bog all anyone can do about it. China has, in fact, got away with it. Deal with it.

China is not a democracy. They don't, as a matter of plain, ugly practicality, have to give a shit about world opinion: the government controls the information that the people see. And even if they were, which is perhaps tougher for us to accept, there really isn't much internal public sympathy for Tibet for outside sources to tap in to. And we can't force them to do anything either.

HMG has done nothing more than recognise reality. There are more promising battles that can be fought, which will be far more rewarding and less futile than this one. The correct course of action is to concede this and focus our efforts elsewhere.
 
V1m said:
As a matter of sheer practicality, Tibet is a lost cause. It's a bloody shame, it's brutally unfair and wrong, and there is absolutely bog all anyone can do about it. China has, in fact, got away with it. Deal with it.

China is not a democracy. They don't, as a matter of plain, ugly practicality, have to give a shit about world opinion: the government controls the information that the people see. And even if they were, which is perhaps tougher for us to accept, there really isn't much internal public sympathy for Tibet for outside sources to tap in to. And we can't force them to do anything either.

HMG has done nothing more than recognise reality. There are more promising battles that can be fought, which will be far more rewarding and less futile than this one. The correct course of action is to concede this and focus our efforts elsewhere.
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Well that's fair comment, probably an accurate assessment of the situation. And in fact we may find from now on that we have less and less influence over anything going on beyond our own borders.

The assumption that the UK is a world power and thus our opinion on world affairs has influence on the world stage is something we have grown used to making. It may well be that it's an assumption which has, by and large, lost its foundation in reality.
 
whitedog said:
Reasonably prompt reply from my MP, but very non-commital:

Dear Mr Williams,

Thank you for your email. I'm concerned by what you write - as you may know, I worked with the Free Tibet society on the Dalai Lama's recent visit. I've not heard that there has in fact been a change of policy, and think it possible that the wording was unintentionally misleading, but all the more reason to clarify it. I'll investigate and report back.
I'm always pleased to find constituents on email, as it helps keep better in touch. I send updates on current issues from time to time to 3000+ constituents. Would you like to be included, if you don't already?

Yours sincxerely

Nick Palmer
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A friend of mine received exactly the same reply from his MP
i must write to mine again, and ask hiom if they share a secretary...

Meanwhile, this is the reply received by another friend, from his tory MP:

Dear Mr ....,
Thank you for contacting me about Tibet.
As a party, we have called upon China to exercise restraint in its response to the crisis in Tibet and we welcome the call by the Dalai Lama for Tibetans not to use violence. We believe that the way to resolve political tensions in Tibet is through dialogue between the Chinese authorities and the representatives of the Dalai Lama. In November, the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister, David Lidington, met with representatives of the Dalai Lama, including his envoy, as well as meeting a senior representative of the Chinese Government to discuss the autonomous status of Tibet and human rights.
The violence in Tibet in March was shocking and unacceptable but we must not forget that issues of religious freedom, freedom of expression and the right to due process and a fair trial before anyone is deprived of liberty, matter in every part of China. For example, leading Chinese dissident and human rights activist, Hu Jia, was jailed in Beijing after giving interviews to foreign media in which he criticised his government’s record on religious freedom, the treatment of AIDS and environmental protection.
China’s political as well as her economic influence in the world is growing. We want to see China exercise her responsibilities as a world power. It is not going to be possible to deal with any major global challenges such as climate change, or the threat of nuclear proliferation without the active partnership of China, and the negotiations over North Korea’s nuclear programme have shown that China can play an important and constructive role. As China becomes a more active player in world events, it is both inevitable and right that her record on human rights, in Tibet and elsewhere, will come under closer scrutiny.
China has signed and promised to ratify the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. We should press China to complete ratification without delay. Our Party must continue to speak about human rights in China and to raise both individual cases and general issues of human rights in our contacts with Chinese leaders.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to write to me.
Best wishes,
Yours sincerely,
Oliver Heald


Mr. Heald doesn't offer to challenge Millibastard about it, and pretty much spells out the truth, ihmo. :Sad:
 
Thats a v interesting reply, cheers for posting it Whitedog.
 
The tibetan idealogy and way of life is vastly different from our own system of government. The tibetan way of life encourages spirituality and humans understanding their true power. When humans get to this stage of awakening, they are less likely to be controlled by governments like our own. So that's why the UK have recognised it, because tibet goes against how they run the shop, and in order to control the masses, you need to be as asleep as possible.
 
to b fair the tibetan government in exile recognises China's "sovrenty" in Tibet, obv its political but tibetan leaders have accepted this in order to avoid conflict
 
energizer said:
The tibetan idealogy and way of life is vastly different from our own system of government. The tibetan way of life encourages spirituality and humans understanding their true power. When humans get to this stage of awakening, they are less likely to be controlled by governments like our own. So that's why the UK have recognised it, because tibet goes against how they run the shop, and in order to control the masses, you need to be as asleep as possible.
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Pah - Tibetan Buddhism states that you cannot achieve an optimal human lifecycle unless you practice dharma daily, so in that sense it's just as dogmatic and unforgiving as anything the west has.

J.(Awake as one can be on a Friday morning)
 
I have at least had an acknowledgement from my MP now:-

Dear Mr Hunt,

Thank you for your recent email regarding Tibet. I will make
enquiries into this matter and reply to you in more detail soon.

Thank you for raising this important issue with me.

Yours sincerely,

David Chaytor
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Finally and in the end:-

Thank you for your email regarding Tibet. I understand
and share your concern on this matter, and will make a point of passing
these on to the Foreign Secretary, the Rt Hon David Miliband MP, at my
earliest opportunity.

I believe the UK Government has been clear about its commitment to the
people of Tibet and the Foreign Secretary has made it plain that the
Government remains deeply concerned about the human rights situation in
Tibet.

The Prime Minister set out his deep concerns to Premier Wen during
discussions in the spring, and again when they met in Beijing during the
Olympic Games.

The UK Government has consistently made clear that we want to see the
human rights of the Tibetan people respected, including respect for
their distinct culture, language, traditions and religions.

The Government is also concerned at more immediate issues arising
directly from the unrest of this spring, including the situation of
those who remain in detention following the unrest, the increased
constraints on religious activity, and the limitations on free access to
the Tibetan Autonomous Region by diplomats and journalists. These
issues reinforce long-held unease on the part of the Government about
the underlying human rights situation in Tibet.

The Government's main interest is in the long term stability of the
area, which can only be achieved through respect for human rights and
greater autonomy for the Tibetans.

Thank you for writing to me about this important matter.

Yours sincerely,

David Chaytor
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Received a copy of this letter to my MP, from the Foreign & Commenwealth Office:

Dear Nick

Thankyou for your letter of 13 November to the Foreign Secretary, on behalf of your cobstituent, Mr Gareth Williams of -xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-, about Tibet. I am replying as Minister responsible for our relations witrh China.

We believe that we needed to reflect the modern reality of our position and bring it into line with that of other EU member States, and the US. We issued our statemernt when we did to make it clear that we believe progress must be made through the talks which took place shortly afterwards. As those talks ended inconclusively, we believe it is vital that the two parties reconvene as soon as possible.

Tibet has been under Chinese admministration for decades. The Dalai Lama himself has made it clear that he is not seeking independance for Tibet.

Our intention in changing our policy on Tibet was to reframe the debate about Tibet firmly in terms of human rights and how to achieve a meaningful system of autonomy. The exact nature of the autonomy we believe should be accorded to Tibet should be the subject of dialogue between the Chinese Government and representatives of the Dalai Lama.

Many in the US, in Britain, and elsewhere agree with us that the human rights situation in Tibet is unacceptable. The Prime Minister will continue to make this plain to China's leaders. Finding a sustainable solution for Tibet is about the future, not the past. The Dalai Lama says he wants autonomy for Tibet within China, not independance. we updated our position because we consider this the right way forward.

We will ensure that human rights features in our high-level bilateral dialogue with China, from the Prime Minister down. We will pursue specific human rights concerns such as minority rights and the legal system through our senior-official level human rights dialogue with China and will continue dedicating significant amounts of funding to support practical projects promoting human rights. We will also pursue these obbjectives closely with like-minded partners in the EU and more broadly.

Our position on a meaningful autonomy for Tibetans remains the same, that it is a matter for the Chinese Government and representatives of the Dalai Lama to resolve. Neither side has requested international mediation in this process.

Yours sincerely

Bill Rammell
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So there we have it.
 
We issued our statemernt when we did to make it clear that we believe progress must be made through the talks which took place shortly afterwards. As those talks ended inconclusively, we believe it is vital that the two parties reconvene as soon as possible.
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Well that worked brilliantly then didn't it.

Although I must admit I didn't know that the Dalai Lama himself has given up on formal independence for Tibet, that does possibly change the context a bit if it's correct.
 
The Minister denied that the UK government were compromising their position on Tibet and human rights due to trade interests, saying: “I utterly reject the point that we are in some way subjugating our principles on human rights because of Chinese money.”
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guys dont be victims of hate compaign.. i would just suggest no to buy into msm and see them as forces trying to shape public opinion in their own interests. obviously their task is not to inform you.
there is no such thing as 'free [enter name of country]'. there are only instruments to aquire and influence under beautifully sounding slogans. if positions are left by one entity then it will be filled by another - simple geopolitics.
tibet been under chineese influence for thousands of years. its quite evident that if china was an obvious opressor then they would have chance before to do the opressing. but as we see tibetians are still there practicing their way. what china will not tolerate is for all those externally sponsored organisations brainwashing tibetians into separating - and eventually falling into western control. divide and conquer in process. china is aware where thats coming from and obviously would act as any other state facing separatist ideas within their zone of influence.
how would you feel if china were to heavily sponsor scottish independance compaign? would that be fair?
 
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