You can't appease Terrorism...

RedZebra said:
- I don’t think there’s any convincing evidence that the 4 London bombers were Muslimist suicide bombers as opposed to having been tricked into a suicide mission.

Particularly the one on the bus. What are the chances that he realised what was going on and was trying to get away from blowing himself up. If he wanted to kill people then he would have sat downstairs on the bus in the middle. Also these bombs seem to have been mainly blast bombs with no real mention of shrapnell. If you want to kill people then you would pack the bombs with nails to make them more effective.

Tend to feel that killing people was not the main intention, although not something that they were too bothered about.

All the best

Keith
 
RedZebra said:
This wealth of information creates a new picture about what is motivating suicide terrorism. Islamic fundamentalism is not as closely associated with suicide terrorism as many people think. The world leader in suicide terrorism is a group that you may not be familiar with: the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka."
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scary that us brits are also ultimately to blame for the civil war in sri lanka......... we couldnt get the native singhalese to pick tea cheap enough so we shipped a load of tamils in to work for our measly wages. when we left after WWII the singhalese then treated the tamils as second class citizens....... they only had access to manual poorly paid jobs, limited schooling (although sri lanka has a higher literacy rate than the uk!) etc............

incidentally, is anyone else scared witless by the current sri lankan president Chandrika Kumaratunga?
I empathise with her as her family was killed (and she was injured) by a sucide bomber....... but dont think that someone who has such a blatant desire for revenge should be responsible for the peace process.
 
Just read through this thread from where I left off.

What strikes me is how every post contains references to "religion" "Islam" "Muslims" and how the entire conversation pertains to "brown people and their activities."


I'll say it again - all we "know" is what we are being fed. This isn't "paranoid conspiracy theory" - it is plain fact. Just because a man in a suit on TV says it - doesn't make it true.


At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, may I point out that during WWII a great many German civillians were convinced that the ills of the fatherland were attributable to the "Jewish menace" because thats what they were told by those in positions of power and influence.

I'm not sitting here in a tinfoil hat, prognosticating about sinister lizard people and ancient catholic sects.

It just disturbs me that so many of you seem to be accepting what you are told without so much as a hint of scepticism - as if it is beyond question that Islamic fanaticism is the source of all modern "evil".

I am of the opinion that the only certainty in all of this is that we haven't a clue what is going on - although I also understand that feeling that it is all so cut and dried is a source of comfort to some of you.
 
Ott^ said:
Just read through this thread from where I left off.

What strikes me is how every post contains references to "religion" "Islam" "Muslims" and how the entire conversation pertains to "brown people and their activities."


I'll say it again - all we "know" is what we are being fed. This isn't "paranoid conspiracy theory" - it is plain fact. Just because a man in a suit on TV says it - doesn't make it true.


At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, may I point out that during WWII a great many German civillians were convinced that the ills of the fatherland were attributable to the "Jewish menace" because thats what they were told by those in positions of power and influence.

I'm not sitting here in a tinfoil hat, prognosticating about sinister lizard people and ancient catholic sects.

It just disturbs me that so many of you seem to be accepting what you are told without so much as a hint of scepticism - as if it is beyond question that Islamic fanaticism is the source of all modern "evil".

I am of the opinion that the only certainty in all of this is that we haven't a clue what is going on - although I also understand that feeling that it is all so cut and dried is a source of comfort to some of you.

....a good point that bares reiterating imo also....first time i've heard of Godwins law....stores it away for future use against TechnoGnome
 
Ott^ said:
Just read through this thread from where I left off
[...]
It just disturbs me that so many of you seem to be accepting what you are told without so much as a hint of scepticism - as if it is beyond question that Islamic fanaticism is the source of all modern "evil".

Umm... Are you sure you're not confusing this thread with another one??.
This seemed to me to be one of the more open-minded and intelligent discussions to have been posted here recently.
I don't agree 100% with what everyone else says, but that makes it more interesting.


Ott^ said:
At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law,

Hehe... hadn't come across that Law before.
Will come in handy I think ;)
 
RedZebra said:
This seemed to me to be one of the more open-minded and intelligent discussions to have been posted here recently.

I totally agree - comparitively speaking.

I'm not implying that everyone is misguided and I am right - far from it. Its just that there seems to be a heavy reliance upon concepts such as;

the resurgence of entirely intractible islamofascist ideology and what that will mean if it continues to grow unabated in any part of the world.

evidence for which I have not seen, discounting what comes to me via TV and other "news" media.

If anything, i see more compelling evidence of "intractable Christo-fascist ideology"


The more photos of bearded Mullahs in turbans The Sun prints on it's front pages, the more sceptical I am about their motives. The more I hear our illustrious leaders use words like "terror" and "fear" and "danger" over and over again in their speeches, the more I wonder what they're really up to.
 
i think the in my opinion the 'stage managed' arrest of asian bloke with backpack - fortunately with two live bbc outside broadcast units within yards of each other to support the idea that we are being shown carefully managed images to get us into a 'certain' way of thinking
 
Ott^ said:
... there seems to be a heavy reliance upon concepts such as "the resurgence of entirely intractible islamofascist ideology and what that will mean if it continues to grow unabated in any part of the world."

evidence for which I have not seen, discounting what comes to me via TV and other "news" media.

If anything, i see more compelling evidence of "intractable Christo-fascist ideology"

Absolutely.
The mainstream media has a lot to answer to.
The less information they have to present, the worse they are, I find - without any police reports or facts, they start interviewing random people or eachother and basically making up their own case for the prosecution - graphics and "reconstructions" follow - which introduce further assumptions
..."News will eat itself"...
Repeat them long enough, and sooner or later those assumptions become acctepted "fact".

The internet is promising resource to counter this, with pockets of useful and reliable information.
As well as a few remaining investigative journalists - which brings me to John Pilger - anyone see his special last night on tv about the duplicity of the British government forcing the inhabitants off Diego Garcia to live in poverty so the US could use it as a massive military base? Shocking. In order to avoid going through Parliament they got the Queen to secretly rubber stamp it directly in some historical precedent she has (forget the exact term sorry).
Who are the fascists again??? :blink:

[hopefully we are are still skirting just beyond the jurisdiction of Godwin's Law at this point!... but it wont take much!]
 
The TV footage of that bloke being arrested in front of Downing Street yesterday (I *really* hope he's not still under arrest and in custody) did f'all to help, especially when you take into consideration the reporters hysteria.

"Here in Downing Street we've just seen armed Police response units racing down Whitehall. There's a man lying on the ground and he has armed Police surrounding him. I can't see if he's carrying anything..."

Try opening your eyes, dumbass!

And why did the Cops tell the TV people to stop filming? Could it be the usual Police over-reaction - or was there something about their behaviour they didn't want the public to see?

One law for them, another for everyone else...

Hugs,

Barclay
 
Hadn't realised things were still going on in this link - good to see..
Ken excelled himself the other night and I'm happily surprised to see
no backlash against him as yet.
saw the Diego Garcia prog - upsetting and outrageous...
Didn't see the Beslan school massacre program though
anyone want to fill me in? i.e. was it chechnyan muslim 'extremists'
or otherwise...
I wouldn't argue with anyone regarding the rise of christian fundamentalism
(good link for resources http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/index.htm
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1719
looks like an interesting and relatively balanced forum so far...)
yet another bunch who see Secularism as 'Evil' whom I also would describe
as christofascist. I think Bush's very first post 9/11 statement refered to a 'crusade'...
To Quote RedZebra:
"Perhaps what is so problematic is the intimate relationship between religion and
politics in many Muslim countries." you are staring to touch on my main point here
I personally believe if humanity is to develop past it's current phase into something
more; then Secularism is pretty much the only way to go - I also believe this is under
threat - From a genuine re-surgence in fascist ideology / ideoligies
to quote Ott "It just disturbs me that so many of you seem to be accepting what you
are told without so much as a hint of scepticism - as if it is beyond question that
Islamic fanaticism is the source of all modern "evil" - yet again you polarize my argument
of course I am aware of the twisted and grossly simplified concepts the western media
and govt's are trying to instil in us the proletariat. Nobody that I can see on this forum
is mindlessly pointing their fingers at the muslim faith as the source of all evil - that's patently
absurd. These threads cite all the reasons why marginilised muslims exist but seem to deny that
this is fuelling the rise in "intractible islamofascist ideology" it does exist Ott; to seemingly
argue that it doesn't confuses me, as you are obviously an intelligent man...
thanks for the link to Godwins law it made me laugh out loud...
 
SkizZ said:
Didn't see the Beslan school massacre program though
anyone want to fill me in? i.e. was it chechnyan muslim 'extremists'
or otherwise...

I made a point of seeing that Despatches prog last night. It was one of the most disturbing programmes I've seen in some time - and inevitably I was crying by the end of it. The pain of it all hurt like hell. It's like one of those pains that has you screaming inside. Sh*t, but it hurt.

Anyways, it was far more balanced than the vast majority of news broadcasts these days. But then there was no need for sensationalism. Imagine losing your son to a heart attack in that hell hole, after he said in the morning that he thought the day was going to be a good one because the sun was shining.

So Innocent... Sh*t, I'm fighting back tears again just thinking about it.

There was stuff from the Russian Federation govt. - none from the Chechens, of course. To the programme makers credit, and although they did talk about the kidnappers being Muslims, they didn't dwell on it. They even made the point that the Chechens said this was what the Russions were doing in Chechenya - and to be honest, how do we know they're not? The Russians have imposed a no go area in Chechenya, so no news reports.

But I ask you, given the Russians track record on human rights and outright brutality, what do you think?

The Chechens central demand? Get out of Chechenya. Sound familiar? It's just another example of one country imposing it's will on another, with no justification.

Sure, the actions of the Chechen rebels were utterly indefensible, but then so are those of the Russian federation - and we ignore that at our peril. Remember Grozny...*

Hugs,

Barclay

*The capital of Cechenya.
 
Barclay (Dark Angel) said:
Remember Grozny...*

Hugs,

Barclay

*The capital of Cechenya.

yeah i remember the last pictures i saw from grozny - could have been Kabul or Stalingrad or Dresden or any place in the world that had been through intense bombing/shelling/urban warfare
 
fukme just heard the news 3 'plain clothes' wotevers just
chased an asian onto the tube - sat on him after he tripped
and promptly discharged 5 rounds into him - hardly the kind of
justice 'we' want to be promoting! smacks of the iranian embassy
special forces behaviour... A very worrying development in my book..
 
I was in central london today and literally all you could here people talking about was 'im glad their checking bags for bombs' 'think of all the bombers lurking about' 'do you think there will be more explosion today?' etc etc

It'd was a tad disturbing. :blink:
 
i got shouted at rather a lot on the train from london to glade, i went to the toilet and when i came back this middle aged man was screaming over the fact i left my bag (massive camping one, not particularly easy to take to the loo with me) and said i could be a terrorist... wanker.
 
boinktastik said:
scary that us brits are also ultimately to blame for the civil war in sri lanka......... we couldnt get the native singhalese to pick tea cheap enough so we shipped a load of tamils in to work for our measly wages. when we left after WWII the singhalese then treated the tamils as second class citizens....... they only had access to manual poorly paid jobs, limited schooling (although sri lanka has a higher literacy rate than the uk!) etc............

incidentally, is anyone else scared witless by the current sri lankan president Chandrika Kumaratunga?
I empathise with her as her family was killed (and she was injured) by a sucide bomber....... but dont think that someone who has such a blatant desire for revenge should be responsible for the peace process.

...not to mention the regime in Burma...the list goes on....
 
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