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:unsure:
Israel, Hezbollah, Lebanon, current crisis, your views
- Thread starter Full Lotus
- Start date
D
dave arc-i
Guest
is it israel vs lebanon?
OR
is it the US vs syria and iran?
OR
is it the US vs syria and iran?
martin_e
Pantheistic Cyberneticist
Just amazed really... the US pushed the G8 not to demand a ceasefire because apparently people not blowing the shit out of each other wouldn't be helpful?
What kind of thinking is that ?
What kind of thinking is that ?
Red five
jah mangled spanner
heres my view.
Israel are butchers, they kill hundreds for the sake of 3 soldiers, use tanks, helicopters and artillery to blow the fuck out of people, then they wonder why the entire Arab world wants to drop a fucking nuke on them.
i say sanctions and embargoes against Israel, stop giving them weapons, medicines and so-on, at least show the Arab (read: muslim) world we are not out to exterminate them.
maybe a peace keeping force out there as well to stop the slaughter.
and what a surprise! Bush backs israel, so does blair, so there will be no help from the UN then?
being part of an fucking axis of evil makes me proud, hows about you?
Israel are butchers, they kill hundreds for the sake of 3 soldiers, use tanks, helicopters and artillery to blow the fuck out of people, then they wonder why the entire Arab world wants to drop a fucking nuke on them.
i say sanctions and embargoes against Israel, stop giving them weapons, medicines and so-on, at least show the Arab (read: muslim) world we are not out to exterminate them.
maybe a peace keeping force out there as well to stop the slaughter.
and what a surprise! Bush backs israel, so does blair, so there will be no help from the UN then?
being part of an fucking axis of evil makes me proud, hows about you?
D
dave arc-i
Guest
and for a people that experienced what living behind a wall feels like (warsaw ghetto 1941/42) they should know better and then that f*cking wall should be pulled down too
problem is with your suggestion paul is that US administration cant not be seen to be supporting israel - there is too much too lose in alienating the jewish vote at home and anyway they need the israeli's to take out irans nuke facilities - means the US isnt shown to commiting an overt act of war against a sovereign state
AND if things hadnt be so iffy in both iraq and afghanistan do you not think there would be massed US forces on both the western and eastern borders of iran by now?
call me a conspiracy theorist if you must - i can see a larger game being played out here - currently war by proxy
problem is with your suggestion paul is that US administration cant not be seen to be supporting israel - there is too much too lose in alienating the jewish vote at home and anyway they need the israeli's to take out irans nuke facilities - means the US isnt shown to commiting an overt act of war against a sovereign state
AND if things hadnt be so iffy in both iraq and afghanistan do you not think there would be massed US forces on both the western and eastern borders of iran by now?
call me a conspiracy theorist if you must - i can see a larger game being played out here - currently war by proxy
SkizZ
ChemicallyModifiedMammal
israel vs lebanon?
OR
is it the US vs syria and iran?
Both I reckon..
and of course israel US vs Palestine - hamas - hezbolah
Israel wants to maintain it's position as the most powerful country in the region to do so it needs to continually remove any alternative power infrastructures around them - by assasination or bombing civilians very often.
Wall Street Journal (July 14), whose editorials often reflect the thinking of neo-conservative forces around Bush, declared, “The White House has cited Syria and Iran as the culprits behind this week’s events, but more forceful words and action are called for. The Middle East stands on the cusp of its worst crisis in a generation, and this is no time for formulaic statements calling for ‘restraint from both sides.’â€
And leading neo-conservative William Kristol wrote: “No Islamic Republic of Iran, no Hezbollah… And perhaps no Hamas either… We might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait?†(It’s Our War,†Weekly Standard, 7/24).
It's fukin sickening the lies and propoganda; what the U.S. and it's attack dog Israel is doing goes against so many conventions it's unbelievable. But it seems if you use the word terrorist and you have U.S imperialist backing then international law no longer even remotely applies.
I have heard the 'abducted' Israeli soldiers were on a patrol actually in Lebanon but I haven't been able to confirm?
The whole of lebanon has been virtually imprisoned by Israel for 6 years and was occupied by them for 20 years.
In the few months prior to this 'incursion' Israel fired over 6000 artillery shells and missiles into the Gaza Strip. On June 8, an artillery shell landed on Beith Lahia Beach killing seven members of the Gahila family. Four days later, Israel killed seven more people, including two children and three medical workers in an attack on a crowded section of Gaza City. On June 20 another Israeli missile hit a refugee camp and killed three children, aged 5, 6 and 16.
and of course now the whole infrastructure of the country is being systematically destroyed [looking for soldiers?] and many many civilians are dying...
In southern Lebanon, Israel has attacked villages where the group Hezbollah has political influence. Reporting from Lebanon, British journalist Robert Fisk wrote, “They came first to the little village of Dweir near Nabatiya in southern Lebanon where an Israeli plane dropped a bomb on to the home of a Shia Muslim cleric. He was killed. So was his wife. So were eight of his children. One was decapitated. All they could find of a baby was its head and torso, which a young villager brandished in fury in front of the cameras. Then the planes visited another home in Dweir and disposed of a family of seven.â€
I despair...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1822191,00.html
http://rwor.org/a/054/israelattack-en.html
http://www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk/pages/isreal_un_resolutions.htm
OR
is it the US vs syria and iran?
Both I reckon..
and of course israel US vs Palestine - hamas - hezbolah
Israel wants to maintain it's position as the most powerful country in the region to do so it needs to continually remove any alternative power infrastructures around them - by assasination or bombing civilians very often.
Wall Street Journal (July 14), whose editorials often reflect the thinking of neo-conservative forces around Bush, declared, “The White House has cited Syria and Iran as the culprits behind this week’s events, but more forceful words and action are called for. The Middle East stands on the cusp of its worst crisis in a generation, and this is no time for formulaic statements calling for ‘restraint from both sides.’â€
And leading neo-conservative William Kristol wrote: “No Islamic Republic of Iran, no Hezbollah… And perhaps no Hamas either… We might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait?†(It’s Our War,†Weekly Standard, 7/24).
It's fukin sickening the lies and propoganda; what the U.S. and it's attack dog Israel is doing goes against so many conventions it's unbelievable. But it seems if you use the word terrorist and you have U.S imperialist backing then international law no longer even remotely applies.
I have heard the 'abducted' Israeli soldiers were on a patrol actually in Lebanon but I haven't been able to confirm?
The whole of lebanon has been virtually imprisoned by Israel for 6 years and was occupied by them for 20 years.
In the few months prior to this 'incursion' Israel fired over 6000 artillery shells and missiles into the Gaza Strip. On June 8, an artillery shell landed on Beith Lahia Beach killing seven members of the Gahila family. Four days later, Israel killed seven more people, including two children and three medical workers in an attack on a crowded section of Gaza City. On June 20 another Israeli missile hit a refugee camp and killed three children, aged 5, 6 and 16.
and of course now the whole infrastructure of the country is being systematically destroyed [looking for soldiers?] and many many civilians are dying...
In southern Lebanon, Israel has attacked villages where the group Hezbollah has political influence. Reporting from Lebanon, British journalist Robert Fisk wrote, “They came first to the little village of Dweir near Nabatiya in southern Lebanon where an Israeli plane dropped a bomb on to the home of a Shia Muslim cleric. He was killed. So was his wife. So were eight of his children. One was decapitated. All they could find of a baby was its head and torso, which a young villager brandished in fury in front of the cameras. Then the planes visited another home in Dweir and disposed of a family of seven.â€
I despair...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1822191,00.html
http://rwor.org/a/054/israelattack-en.html
http://www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk/pages/isreal_un_resolutions.htm
martin_e
Pantheistic Cyberneticist
The bombing of civilian infrastructure which is not a military asset is a crime under international law and the Geneva conventions, "collective punishment" of civilians is also a war-crime and is the only possible description for what is being done out there.
SkizZ
ChemicallyModifiedMammal
http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=13&id=1036572006
reports from inside lebanon
and a very insightful [I think] blog entry from:
11. Filip, Sydney, Australia / 7:13am 17 Jul 2006
Overstatement of the year? How about "More to the point, Israel, for years, has been subjected to on-going bullying, provocations and intimidation from its northern neighbour". Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Israel has filled the spot of Middle East school yard bully for the better part of the last 40 years, secure in their provocation knowing they have the full backing of the US. In any case, the primary issue I was making earlier has been conveniently side-stepped. Yes, the Hezbollah was wrong in their actions to kidnap any Israeli citizen, however nothing can justify the total blanket bombing and total disregard for destruction which Israel has been exhibiting. This is no longer an example of self defence but an attempt to extinguish a nation. The ferocity of the current assault conjures up suspicions that perhaps Israel is pursuing additional agendas. As I have stated before, why the need for such drastic action. Surely the Israelis could have appealed to the Lebanese Government and given them the opportunity to make a statement and suggest a response such as the use of Lebanese troops in an attempt to disarm the Hezbollah and rescue the Israelis kidnapped. How is Lebanon supposed to act against militants when the Israelis attack their security forces and render them impotent before their own people? Yasser Arafat asked these very questions after the creation of a Palestinian Police Force with Israeli support. Shortly after, his own headquarters was targeted along with various police stations in the occupied areas. Why the need to shell the Lebanese coast with patrol boats when a naval blockade would suffice to prevent terrorists transferring their captives elsewhere. If Israel must bomb bridges to prevent the movement of terrorists why does this go hand in hand with the destruction of Beirut's city centre which contains no anti-aircraft defences? By continuing this bombardment, the Israeli's are committing daily war crimes which unfortunately they will never have to answer for. The US is using its' veto on the security council in an irresponsible manner which as usual reflects the implementation of American foreign policy for its own benefit. As a permanent member of the Security Council the US is supposed to be considering initiatives which will promote regional stability. Instead, they hold the entire UN to ransom by continually vetoing proposals by other members of the UN to rightly condemn the violation of Lebanon's borders.
However strongly one may suport Israel's actions, how can a casualty sheet of 96 civilians out of a total of 100 killed be justified? Lebanese mothers love their children too.
reports from inside lebanon
and a very insightful [I think] blog entry from:
11. Filip, Sydney, Australia / 7:13am 17 Jul 2006
Overstatement of the year? How about "More to the point, Israel, for years, has been subjected to on-going bullying, provocations and intimidation from its northern neighbour". Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Israel has filled the spot of Middle East school yard bully for the better part of the last 40 years, secure in their provocation knowing they have the full backing of the US. In any case, the primary issue I was making earlier has been conveniently side-stepped. Yes, the Hezbollah was wrong in their actions to kidnap any Israeli citizen, however nothing can justify the total blanket bombing and total disregard for destruction which Israel has been exhibiting. This is no longer an example of self defence but an attempt to extinguish a nation. The ferocity of the current assault conjures up suspicions that perhaps Israel is pursuing additional agendas. As I have stated before, why the need for such drastic action. Surely the Israelis could have appealed to the Lebanese Government and given them the opportunity to make a statement and suggest a response such as the use of Lebanese troops in an attempt to disarm the Hezbollah and rescue the Israelis kidnapped. How is Lebanon supposed to act against militants when the Israelis attack their security forces and render them impotent before their own people? Yasser Arafat asked these very questions after the creation of a Palestinian Police Force with Israeli support. Shortly after, his own headquarters was targeted along with various police stations in the occupied areas. Why the need to shell the Lebanese coast with patrol boats when a naval blockade would suffice to prevent terrorists transferring their captives elsewhere. If Israel must bomb bridges to prevent the movement of terrorists why does this go hand in hand with the destruction of Beirut's city centre which contains no anti-aircraft defences? By continuing this bombardment, the Israeli's are committing daily war crimes which unfortunately they will never have to answer for. The US is using its' veto on the security council in an irresponsible manner which as usual reflects the implementation of American foreign policy for its own benefit. As a permanent member of the Security Council the US is supposed to be considering initiatives which will promote regional stability. Instead, they hold the entire UN to ransom by continually vetoing proposals by other members of the UN to rightly condemn the violation of Lebanon's borders.
However strongly one may suport Israel's actions, how can a casualty sheet of 96 civilians out of a total of 100 killed be justified? Lebanese mothers love their children too.
D
dave arc-i
Guest
http://www.psystream.net/forum/showthread.php?t=232
pondering over whether i am that bothered by getting a ban from isra by posting this subject on their board?
pondering over whether i am that bothered by getting a ban from isra by posting this subject on their board?
martin_e
Pantheistic Cyberneticist
This is a very worrying article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-boehlert/cnns-lebanon-problem_b_25031.html
So in the US CNN News doesn't bother mentioning Lebanese civilian casualties... nice!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-boehlert/cnns-lebanon-problem_b_25031.html
So in the US CNN News doesn't bother mentioning Lebanese civilian casualties... nice!
Barclay (Dark Angel)
Ninja Hippy
martin_e said:
Hello Israel - wake up!
Remember the Nazis?
Hugs,
Barclay
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They don't do politics over there, thread would get deleted and you'd prolly get banned before anyone would have a chance to read it.dave arc-i said:
D
dave arc-i
Guest
Full Lotus said:
exactly the reason children are being bombed i think
and that tactic doesnt really surprise given the actions of their government
there was more but i have self-censored myself due to racist comments, incitement to violence and other matters
It's always interesting to read the well-informed comments on world events on sy-forum. Makes a change from some blog sites.
With regard to the possibility that Israel is trying to lure the US deeper into a middle East war against their own enemies, there would have been a huge propaganda buildup if the US were interested, and that hasn't been the case.
Secondly, as much as some Israeli trance probably does justify banning (ie: anything with vocals), I don't think boycotting it all would be targetting the right people (much as the Israeli army targets the wrong people in Lebanon and Palestine.
With regard to the possibility that Israel is trying to lure the US deeper into a middle East war against their own enemies, there would have been a huge propaganda buildup if the US were interested, and that hasn't been the case.
Secondly, as much as some Israeli trance probably does justify banning (ie: anything with vocals), I don't think boycotting it all would be targetting the right people (much as the Israeli army targets the wrong people in Lebanon and Palestine.
ozdave
Phased and misused.
dave arc-i said:
Surely you were not being racist in what you wanted to say if it was aimed at the Israeli Govt rather than Jews as a people?
D
dave arc-i
Guest
RedZebra said:
im suggesting it is the other way around - that syria and iran are pursuing their own agenda against the US/israel using lebanon/hezbollah to provoke israel and if that is the case then it is working
the US would be happy for it to be shown on the worlds stage that both syria and iran are *terrorist states* (conveniently overlooking israels recent exploits) thus justifying further military (imperialist) moves against both those countries and of course with oil at $78usd a barrel i suppose the country controlling those resources would benefit quite well from that - halliburton and the reconstruction contracts in iraq anyone?
munilooney
tandemista
Here's a video to show you just how much thought GWB has put into the matter:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_5180000/newsid_5187600/bb_wm_5187630.stm
Personally I think it's all far too disorganised. They should use a group system like in the World Cup.
Group A
America
Somalia
Iran
India
South Africa
Italy
Group B
Great Britain
Iraq
Jordan
Australia
Pakistan
Portugal
Syria
So Game one...
America v Somalia
A very tricky match which has seen the group favorites America put on the back foot in past encounters..
Iran v India
These teams have not met in international matches before but both teams are heavily armed and highly motivated, will we see India playing the long game and opting for a Sudden Death nuclear option in extra time?
etc......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_5180000/newsid_5187600/bb_wm_5187630.stm
Personally I think it's all far too disorganised. They should use a group system like in the World Cup.
Group A
America
Somalia
Iran
India
South Africa
Italy
Group B
Great Britain
Iraq
Jordan
Australia
Pakistan
Portugal
Syria
So Game one...
America v Somalia
A very tricky match which has seen the group favorites America put on the back foot in past encounters..
Iran v India
These teams have not met in international matches before but both teams are heavily armed and highly motivated, will we see India playing the long game and opting for a Sudden Death nuclear option in extra time?
etc......
martin_e
Pantheistic Cyberneticist
For anyone a little uncertain as to the situation and the US response, here's a small parable I came across earlier...
i'm too angry about this to make any constructive comments.
The Israeli government is clearly showing their true colours.
They are behaving as callous, racist, genocidal butchers, and obviously of the opinion that an Israeli life is worth more than any other life.
It beggars belief how they are getting away with it.
The Israeli government is clearly showing their true colours.
They are behaving as callous, racist, genocidal butchers, and obviously of the opinion that an Israeli life is worth more than any other life.
It beggars belief how they are getting away with it.