Radicals taking over

[caspian]

Clonewar - every time I look at your spewage I feel obliged to point out your lies or errors, whatever they are. So here's another:

It’s no secret the Israelis were arming the Lebanese. They chose their side in the war as the Syrians and others did. The Palestinians were attempting in conjunction with the Syrians to topple what would have been a promising secular democracy.

Heheh... :irofl: it looks as if you weren't aware that the Syrians entered Lebanon at the invitation of the Christian government of President Fanjieh. They came do fight the PLO. Why do you think the Israelis allowed the Syrians to put in SAM batteries all along the bekaa valley and even south of the Litani river?

The syrians "chose" the same side as israel did. The Palestinians were ranged AGAINST the syrians as the war began. Do you write everything through a mirror or do you craft this junk deliberately?

 

[caspian]

Also, you call it a "promising secular democracy". Actually it was a confessional system with the president always a maronite christian, the PM always a sunni and the speaker of the house always a shiite. The numbers of MPs had been fixed decades earlier to reflect the then respective populations of the three communities. Hardly a secular democracy.

The proportions had changed out of all recognition by the 1980s, so the sunnis and shiites wanted more representatives to reflect their population. This was not something the maronites were able to concede. Herein lies the roots of the lebanese catastrophe. Exacerbated when israel invaded the country in 1975 and again in 1982 to play political divide and rule.



Tell me clonewar - why is it that you talked endlessly earlier about responding to points and debating the real issues, but have failed even to attempt to tackle a single of of the questions I have put specifically for you?

I suspect its because you can't. Are you going to prove me right with continued silence or are you going to at least attempt to defend your stance? Go on, I dare ya..

 

[lala69]

As far as I'm aware - the president and the pm of the Lebanese government change with every election between Moslem (I confess I don't know whether Sunni or Shiite) and Maronite Catholic. I know that this still may not be representative of the 60% Moslem and 40% Catholic ratio that's there at the moment... but that's how it works. Anyway - I do have to thank you on the whole for your considered posting.

 

[AEON]

i'm qualified! i'm a proper historian!

i have a bit of paper or two to prove it as well.

can i play?

 

[SkizZ]

hehe I dont think you need permission fella

I reckon some input from your perspective would be very interesting

it's possible clonewar might even have some respect for it - but I doubt it....

 

[caspian]

You still googling your answer clonewar? I'm expecting something pretty big and beefy from you after waiting so long.

Let me quote your own words back at you:

You do have the choice not to reply.

I will resume this later.

And just to keep it interesting, here's another question for you. I'm congratulating myself at keeping it to one, believe me there is no shortage of choice...

Also, I fail to see why the international community should fund an organisation which practices and admits to terrorism.

Maybe they should fund them to be even-handed? After all, Israel imported terror to the region, took the land by violence, and expelled the inhabitants through terror. If you disagree then I am only too happy to debate the point with you. We can discuss benny morris if you are up for it.

Or perhaps you concede in advance that the names Ivraham Stern, Vladimir Jabotinsky, Menachem Begin, Yizchak Shamir, the Irgun, the Stern Gang, the murder of UN negotiator Count Bernadotte, the blowing up of the King David Hotel killing 90 odd lives (yes yes I know they phoned a warning at the last minute, do you think that makes it acceptable?), Lehi (who published the following: "Neither Jewish morality nor Jewish tradition can negate the use of terror as a means of battle" and acted upon it without mercy, the murder of Lord Moyne, the bombing of the cairo-haifa train in 1948, murder of british soldiers, boobytrapping the bodies to kill even more - you get the idea right? - that all the above did not exactly cover themselves in glory? And we haven't even mentioned the last sorry 58 years...

I'm eager to see what you have to say about it.

 

[emperor norton]

I'm congratulating myself...

Oh, but aren't you..?

Meanwhile, fifteen pages later, has anyone come close to altering their view?




Incidentally, I'm guessing clonewar is long gone - off to troll elsewhere.

 

[Squagnut]

Meanwhile, fifteen pages later, has anyone come close to altering their view?

Not by much, but I've learned a few things.

 

[emperor norton]

I've learned a few things.

What have you learned Phil?

 

[caspian]

Oh, but aren't you..?

Meanwhile, fifteen pages later, has anyone come close to altering their view?

Incidentally, I'm guessing clonewar is long gone - off to troll elsewhere.

He should expect to get pulled up if he spouts the kind of garbage he was excreting.

Other people's views - thats up to them.

 

[emperor norton]

It's all "other people's views" Caspian.

 

[Squagnut]

What have you learned Phil?

I learned that from time to time Ott needs to be told to fuck off.

 

[emperor norton]

I learned that from time to time Ott needs to be told to fuck off.

 

[dave arc-i]

looks like he is growing those dreadlocks again

 

[Squagnut]

 

[emperor norton]

 

[Squagnut]

 

[Squagnut]

Bollocks - I meant:

 

[peeping tom]

One thing that scares me is that I´m 23 and i'll see another war involveing israel in my life time,maybe more then one,we saw one last summer,what did that gain?nothing!just a excuse to kill more innocent women and children,and to use u.s jet fighters to bomb civilian targets in beruit,which is sparsely populated city. And another thing i saw a program on telly back in the summer,talking about how the israeli military and airforce got local children to sign bombs and shells,saying dealth to lebbanon,hezbollah,and palestines,It makes me sick and shake with anger,bringing kids into the picture.

 

[SkizZ]

One thing that scares me is that I´m 23 and i'll see another war involveing israel in my life time,maybe more then one,we saw one last summer,what did that gain?nothing!just a excuse to kill more innocent women and children,and to use u.s jet fighters to bomb civilian targets in beruit,which is sparsely populated city. And another thing i saw a program on telly back in the summer,talking about how the israeli military and airforce got local children to sign bombs and shells,saying dealth to lebbanon,hezbollah,and palestines,It makes me sick and shake with anger,bringing kids into the picture.

unforunately the children are indoctrinated on both sides - the psychological damage is much more one sided though....link showing foto's taken by Israeli journalist:
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/...sraeli-kids-sends-gifts-of-love-to-arab-kids/

what is interesting to note is the amount of differing stories RE: these foto's
I believe from what I've read it was the parents who urged them to write death to Nasrallah and draw pictures; I find it quite strange that the common argument is the kids did not see the bombs as being used to kill people - only buildings used by Hezbollah - this may be true considering the absence of dead Palestinian imagery in Israeli reporting but still hard to believe....