UK General Elections 05-05-05

[onestone]

And now for a little light hearted break

http://www.gbjab.com/

 

[Kudos]

Poll results looking lovely. I have to vote LibDem just to make sure the Reds and Blues have less of a chance - and I think Lib Dems are going to be less corrupt - they haven't been the ruling party for decades, and neither have they been the main opposition. Second choice to Lib Dems for me is Green party, which I will want to vote for next time round..

 

[trancetheory]

What breakfast cereal packet did you read that on?

I'm not forgetting anything of the sort. I am unequivocally stating that we are all, individually and collectively, "to small to make a diffrence" (sic) to the people who actually run things.

Have you ever thought more deeply about why these people 'run things'? who gives them the power to control? Not God I suspect...! Its the Consumer, ie You! Consumers give these people power by accepting what they offer without complaint. Often with the excuse, theres no other choice, well pherhaps there is a choice, it just depends how much you care about the world as a global community that should be looking after itself and how much you care about your own comfort.....and peoples comfort is what they rely on, as long as people would rather be comfortable and 'rich'...they will alwayz be in power

I can speak for nobody but myself, but I can't help thinking that to simply parrot the old "not voting = apathy" nonsense is to render yourself more part of the problem than part of the solution.

So what you are saying is, that if everyone in the country voted, it wouldnt make a diffrence? No, I dont believe this, the fact is that many people dont vote becuase they dont see the point, and this is what the Labour and Conservatives are hoping for, because they know that those people who dont vote, dont want to vote for them, but dont see any other real choice.

With dupes like you to spread their propaganda, its no wonder that WalMart have more power than any of our "elected representatives"...

as i said before, Consumerism, without us, they have no power, if you feel so strongly about it, surly you should be refusing to use these brands and trying to explain to people why? (I bet your using Micro$oft windoze right now arnt ya?!) rather than not voting, there is alwayz a better vote to put down, but by not voting you are doing what Blair wants you to do, coz he knows theres no chance you will vote for him...so he's happy

Votes are counted, non-votes are not. If you want to have an opinion, you have to state it, otherwise you have no-chance of being heard, they dont care about non-votes, and they never will......so whos the dupe?

 

[trancetheory]

I'm coming to the conclusion that you're not all that bright.

Really? So to sit on your arse complaining is more intelligent than actually geting up and doing somthing about it? When was the last time you spoke to your local councilor about somthing you dont like? When was the last time you activly promoted this anti-power life style you are going on about?...and complaing on forums and in pubs to drunk old men doesnt count...

I seem to remeber saying similar things when I was 14/15, couldnt get somthing done my own way, so I would drop out altogether....yeah, very mature, just say no huh?

Sorry if you find this offencive, but personally I find your attitude offencive, is everything you believe really right?

 

[trancetheory]

hehe nice link OneStone

 

[Ott^]

miszt - the thing that makes "debating" with you an entirely fruitless exercise is that you tend to respond to what you think people are saying, as opposed to what they actually do say.

Presenting a list of your own personal preconceptions as an "argument" [as in this and the "Pope's Funeral" threads] is simpy a way of typing whilst imparting no information whatsoever.

 

[trancetheory]

I'm coming to the conclusion that you're not all that bright.

I can speak for nobody but myself, but I can't help thinking that to simply parrot the old "not voting = apathy" nonsense is to render yourself more part of the problem than part of the solution.

With dupes like you to spread their propaganda, its no wonder that WalMart have more power than any of our "elected representatives"...

What breakfast cereal packet did you read that on?

I'm not forgetting anything of the sort. I am unequivocally stating that we are all, individually and collectively, "to small to make a diffrence" (sic) to the people who actually run things.

miszt - the thing that makes "debating" with you an entirely fruitless exercise is that you tend to respond to what you think people are saying, as opposed to what they actually do say.

Presenting a list of your own personal preconceptions as an "argument" [as in this and the "Pope's Funeral" threads] is simpy a way of typing whilst imparting no information whatsoever.

right...!....I think my quotes should speak for themselves as a reply to you

If I am right in what I THINK you are saying, then you mean that you were somehow making metaphorical responses and dont actually disagree with what I was saying?

 

[Whyterabbit]

Well, I'm voting Lib-Dem. I certainly can't vote Conservative, and I won't vote Labour... i remember the first time i ever saw Tony Blair on television. i said to my mum- "That man looks like a weasel." He looked like 'The Smiler' from Transmetropolitan- like he had a head full of bad wiring. My mum told me not to judge on appearances, but i think my apprehensions have proved correct. I can see sickness in a person from miles away.

Ok, so maybe the Lib-Dem's propaganda is a litany of things they're against... At least they're not reliant on slagging off and slandering another party with undated newspaper headlines.

I admit, i'm no political expert, but i've seen what the Conservatives can do and i've seen what Labour can do, and they both suck at their jobs. Time to try the last party with any hope of winning- I've actually heard alot of people saying they will vote Lib-Dem, and by the looks of the poll up there, there's a few more.

Maybe they'll stand a chance Joe, if people don't dismiss them off-hand like you are... (not meaning to offend, buddy... )

 

[Ott^]

i've seen what the Conservatives can do and i've seen what Labour can do, and they both suck at their jobs. Time to try the last party with any hope of winning...

I think the clue is in the first sentence.

 

[Ott^]

The comments above about Murdoch and the press are only part of it. The multinationals, the EU, America, the World Bank/IMF/other international robbers, the organised criminals, NGOs, the Stock Market, pressure groups, unions etc. etc. all vie down on the Government in a way that cannot be managed. Whatever party gets in, they will do the same thing because they just don't have enough power. At best they sit in the middle and try not to piss too many people off; at worst they buy into all these outside agencies/governments and write off what "the people" want completely.

Totally agree.

[I used Murdoch as a shorthand way of referring to the long list of people who actually wield the political power in the world.]

So I am intending to vote for "none of the above - different political system" because that is what I believe. I know it won't be counted...

Oh but it will.

All this "non votes don't get counted" nonsense is just a hugely uninformed myth. As the "None of the above"party" increases in size [which it is] it will become more influential with every election. I meet people who share this opinion all the time - some really switched on passionate people who you wouldn't think to describe as "apathetic".

The people with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo seek to write off "mindful non-participation" as laziness and apathy [and the more stupid and credulous amongst the electorate like to repeat it for them...] because it suits them. It serves to marginalise the largest growing political voice in the world.


Not that every non-voter is doing so in an "active" and "mindful" fashion. Some people genuinely can't be arsed.

I'm not one of them.

Vote for what you believe in, not what you feel you should.

Amen.

 

[damion]

well said.

 

[Squagnut]

There's a Legalise Cannabis Alliance candidate standing here, and I can't think of a candidate more deserving of my vote. She was recently charged with possession of cannabis, and got off with it at Crown Court, because she uses it to alleviate MS pain - and takes it very seriously as a political issue. One hell of a good precedent to set. I just want to help ensure she doesn't lose her deposit.

My vote goes here.

LCA Candidates

 

[Stuoolong]

Vote cast.

My postal voting slip.

Yes, Ott^, technically you're right that it will be counted, but I expect like every other election in my memory they'll have a few backstage politicians and BBC reporters going "ooh, low turnouts and spoilt ballot papers again", which will all get forgotten about in two days time. I think there will be many elections before any of them actually take it seriously. Nonetheless, I stand by what I believe, and this goes in the post tomorrow.

Happy voting, whichever :party2: you are supporting.

 

[Faction]

Has anyone other than me considered the possibility that the only reason why the Lib Dems are being allowed to increase their profile (and lets make no mistake about it, this doesn't 'just happen' - see the comments about media manipulation above and in many past threads) is to further the illusion of choice now that so many people are realising that there is no effective difference between the Conservative and Labour parties? There's not a fuck of a lot of difference where it counts between then and the Lib Dems as far as I can tell, either; the Yellow party supported the invasion as soon as troops arrived in Iraq despite speaking against it earlier, and they support many of the worst Labour policies (eg PFI) too.

Personally I'm voting Green this time as in order to do much of what they want they will have to pretty much restructure the running of the entire country and its electoral system - both Good Things IMO.

 

[Firinne]

Personally I'm voting Green this time as in order to do much of what they want they will have to pretty much restructure the running of the entire country and its electoral system - both Good Things IMO.

Same here, the idea of the eco tax really appeals to me and their commitment to renewable energy and zero waste are huge selling points. Their policies on health education and increasing self reliance for individuals and communities is a much needed change, it's ridiculous how many people in this country aren't even aware that feeding their kids on a diet of McDonalds is bad for them and how much lack of education on basic health issues contributes to the strain on the NHS.

I think they fall over a little on their taxation ideas though, the idea of a 50% tax on salaries of £50,000+ will probably have a huge impact on the education system - there'll be a lot less people going for their postgrad if there's no financial incentive for qualifications and the problem with the distribution of wealth in this country isn't so much the people earning it, it's the people sitting on it (imo, of course) and while the citizens income seems to be a selling point, is it really fair to change the entire social order in such a way that people that choose not to work are rewarded for doing so? I'm all for changes in the welfare system, but they should be based on a fair redistribution of wealth and not just a politically correct one.
I'm going to vote for them anyway though, personally I'd be more than happy to work for the NHS on a 50% pay cut if it meant an improvement in the mental health services.

 

[trancetheory]

is to further the illusion of choice

almost certainly true.

renewable energy and zero waste

Zero waste is way to much to ask at the moment, but at the same time, theres no point in aiming at only doing half the job I guess.

50% tax on salaries of £50,000

This would be nice, actually I think an entirly new system of taxation, where 'peoples money' is considered a benifit to the community rather than as a personal gain would be realy good, and pherhaps would start to break down many of the barriers that have been created in society......startin to sound more like communism tho, which mr Bush wouldnt like lol

Personally I'm voting Green this time as in order to do much of what they want they will have to pretty much restructure the running of the entire country and its electoral system - both Good Things IMO.

same, same resonz, retty much

 

[JPsychodelicacy]

How anyone can vote for Tony Blair or the Conservatives after reading this article.....is beyond me...

http://pilger.carlton.com/print/133445

Look - there's no point in getting our knickers in a twist over Iraq. Georgie was going to have his little death-fest even if we'd had the Monster Raving Loonies in power - and the country would have been compelled to support it in the name of 'transatlantic co-operation' (read:continued support from Murdoch, 'cos wars sell papers).

If The Neocons could dismiss 10 million globally as a 'focus group', the simple fact is that no-one was going to be able to stop them.

Personally I'm voting Green this time as in order to do much of what they want they will have to pretty much restructure the running of the entire country and its electoral system - both Good Things IMO.

AAAAaaaaaaargh!

Same here, the idea of the eco tax really appeals to me and their commitment to renewable energy and zero waste are huge selling points. Their policies on health education and increasing self reliance for individuals and communities is a much needed change, it's ridiculous how many people in this country aren't even aware that feeding their kids on a diet of McDonalds is bad for them and how much lack of education on basic health issues contributes to the strain on the NHS.

*Bangs head repeatedly on table*

The Green Party are opposed to EU entry and the EU constitution - effectively handing control of the world to the US (primary exporters of the myth that McDonald's is a good thing for kids to be eating) for the next 30 years, to be taken over by China and India in the next 40, thus condemning us to near third-world status by the time our kids are our age.

This is such a myopic and badly thought-out policy (it's a knee-jerk reaction to globalisation that is at least as badly conceived as the Tories knee-jerk economic/immigration policies and Labour's knee-jerk 'anti-terrorism' policies) that I can't believe that an otherwise sane party would pursue that route. It's all very well being for sustainable food production and manufacturing, *but* there's no point in doing it alone, therefore we *must* prove we can do it competitively. It's not about convincing the elctorate that it's possible - the international money men must also be convinced.

And there's no chance we can do that by going it alone.

J.

 

[icy_fire_]

Lib Dem all the way for me too. I agree with a lot of their policies, much more then any other group thats for sure. I think we need a change and itd be interesting if the Lib Dems did win.

Plus, i met our local Lib Dem leader in the pub on saturday night without realising! I had a drunken sing along with this random woman as me and her were both hammered and my mates stayed chatting to her for a while. when i came back found out who she was. Apparently she said she was "getting to know the community"...hehe. She was well cool tho. Asked my friend if she smoked weed and congratulated her when she said yes.

 

[Jason Frog]

Unstick this topic now maybe?