Scary rise in nationalism...

Sach said:
its just that my skin colour plays no part in what I view as 'myself'...
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Fair...
But you have to admit that for others, it is definative.

Some Rasta I know, think i'm a blagger, as I am white. (mainly as they are from the Bobo Shanti sect)....
Wheras some think that (to quote one of them), ''Jah light is coverage'' ....regardless of colour or nation, or even whether you wear dreads or not.


So you have to remember, not every racist person is a white BNP member.
And not everyone who has racist comments made to/about them, cares :Smile3:
 
But Chris, there's a big difference between whether you're talking about racism in terms of some people thinking you don't belong to their silly hairdo and drugs smoking club, and racism in terms of wanting to inflict violence upon and physically eject people of a difference skin colour from a country, no?

J.
 
You can like afford to not care though, because you haven't been systemically discriminated against because of your race.

But I'm not saying that guy isn't a cock

The point of people on the receiving end not caring, that isn't the point. The point is the intention of the comment someone said and if it's racist bullshit then the point it to offend and hurt etc etc

Skip all the wanky stuff at the top and look at the list, see what you think

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cach...du/president/aaction/UnpackingTheKnapsack.pdf

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
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I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
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I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
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I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
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I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
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I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
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Etc etc etc
 
JPsychodelicacy said:
silly hairdo and drugs smoking club,
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Can you please try and not be purposelly offensive, for the sake of adult discussion
...for one minute please??

Don't worry, i've come to expect nothing more from yourself, sir.
So no apology neccessary.


I'll edit that for you, as you seem to be struggling with anything resembling, finese.
JPsychodelicacy said:
But Chris, there's a big difference between whether you're talking about racism in terms of some people thinking you don't belong to their Rastafarian Faith, and racism in terms of wanting to inflict violence upon and physically eject people of a difference skin colour from a country, no?
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Childish-ness over....shall we get back on topic?? :Smile3:

It's all degrees of the same thing.
Some of those people will be content with believing I have no place in their faith, and leaving it at that.
Some may want to put into words their grievances.
Some may want to act physically on their grievances.

SO, in summary....
I think that if you have it inside of you, to think that in the fist place, then words can not be far behind, and violence cannot be far behind that. IF prompted.
Fine line, no??
 
Red five said:
watch your fucking mouth joe.
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Sorry Paul, I've got very little time for religion in general, and the simple truth is that most of the guys of my background that I know who have declared themselves to be followers of Rastafarianism at any given time have done so as a reason for having dreads and smoking pot - i.e. the dreads and the pot came first. All power to them if they genuinely follow the precepts and genuinely believe in the stuff, mind.

J.
 
pride: noun

the state or feeling of being proud.

1. The quality or state of being proud; inordinate self-esteem; an unreasonable conceit of one's own superiority in talents, beauty, wealth, rank, etc., which manifests itself in lofty airs, distance, reserve, and often in contempt of others.

2. A sense of one's own worth, and abhorrence of what is beneath or unworthy of one; lofty self-respect; noble self-esteem; elevation of character; dignified bearing; proud delight; -- in a good sense.

4. That of which one is proud; that which excites boasting or self-gratulation; the occasion or ground of self-esteem, or of arrogant and presumptuous confidence, as beauty, ornament, noble character, children, etc.

(I do see where you're coming from Michael; and perhaps 'marginilised' minorities can use the word legitimately if it is a reaction against ignorance or religious dogma seeking to somehow shame those not adhering to a 'societies' norms - but in essence I think it is the flipside of the same coin)
 
JPsychodelicacy said:
All power to them if they genuinely follow the precepts and genuinely believe in the stuff, mind
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Listen if I started telling everybody that I believed Big Bunny* was running the show I would expect to have people make humorous comments about it

Dont see why God or any other incarnation of Big Bunny should be any different

*I dont honestly believe Big Bunny is running the show - the mice are behind it really
 
JPsychodelicacy said:
Sorry Paul, I've got very little time for religion in general, and the simple truth is that most of the guys of my background that I know who have declared themselves to be followers of Rastafarianism at any given time have done so as a reason for having dreads and smoking pot - i.e. the dreads and the pot came first. All power to them if they genuinely follow the precepts and genuinely believe in the stuff, mind.

J.
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when nook quite blatently knows his scriptures and tries to follow the path that is jah righteous? i think its well out of line to accuse him, and the religion of rastafari to be nothing more than a club for silly haircuts and dope smoking, just on the experience of some middle class white boy with the wrong ideas.

basically you are arguing against intolerance, when you, yourself, just came out with a pretty intolerant statement right there.

i know you are an intelligent and sound guy joe, but goddamn man you come out with some daft stuff sometimes.
 
Nanook said:
Some may want to act physically on their grievances.
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But in doing so then they'd be violating one of the major generally-accepted precepts of Rastafarianism, which is physical pacifism and the only sword being the tongue.

SO, in summary....
I think that if you have it inside of you, to think that in the fist place, then words can not be far behind, and violence cannot be far behind that. IF prompted.
Fine line, no??
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Actually, I subscribe to the same precept as the Rastas there, not out of any deep-held belief as such, but because of the fact that I am physically on the diminutive side. :Wink3:

Red five said:
basically you are arguing against intolerance, when you, yourself, just came out with a pretty intolerant statemnet right there.
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I would hope that Chris would know that I meant no harm by the statement I made - because it was meant to be humorous and non-offensive. As I said, I have little time for religion in general, but that doesn't mean I can't or won't respect those that do.

J.
 
JPsychodelicacy said:
I would hope that Chris would know that I meant no harm by the statement I made - because it was meant to be humorous and non-offensive. As I said, I have little time for religion in general, but that doesn't mean I can't or won't respect those that do.
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I can understand that mate...
No worries.
But if you were having a day of it, and I came out and called you a ''stupid pill taking heathen''....you'd probably think me a nob head?? ..(or at least a little mis-informed)
Especially if I did it with no smilies, and in the midst of a pretty full-on discussion, yea??


I don't want to cause any grief (which im failing at miserably last few days), so i'll keep my head out of Gen Discussion for a while....


[puts on middle class voice]
''everybody feeling Irie??''
[end voice]...

(laughs)

Good,
well toodlepip, for now :Smile3:

N
 
This is the thing, what is the point of nationalism apart from to segregate and divide? And who would want to be identified as something that they were born into and have no control over? I think as sentient self-aware beings, the thing that we can be all proud of are the choices we make. We are all on this forum, at this minute because of our music taste. It is a choice that we have made because this lifestyle resonates with us more than anything our skin colour, location and profession could offer us. Honestly, I feel sorry for people who are so bland and with so little to be proud of that they have to resort to shackling themselves to their racial mass so they could claim whatever glory they can. To me, nationalism and football supporters go hand-in-hand simply for the fact that they have surrendered their individuality for fanticism.

Blipbop. Your friend J would have lost his job regardless of the immigrants. The recession has hit the country pretty bad. While we all would like to point the fingers at the bankers, the bent politicians or the immigrants for the plight of the economy, I think A LOT of people took more than their fair share when it came to credits and loans, otherwise things wouldn't be as bad as they are now. Honestly, shit happens. We have had it good before. There was a time when £ was at the top of the world and we have enjoyed it (whether we deserved it, some might argue) and now this is the backlash.
 
Loewan said:
I think A LOT of people took more than their fair share when it came to credits and loans, otherwise things wouldn't be as bad as they are now.
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They only took it because the banks told them they could afford it. In the US, you had Dubya crowing about creating an "ownership society" based on these subprime mortgages - many of which have now ended in repossession.

Blaming the people who took the mortgages out is a weaselly thing to do, because it's blaming the weak. The people who became rich beyond the dreams of avarice, or even more so than they were before out of leveraging CDS packages based on subprime mortgages (and to an extent the government regualtors who let them) are the primary villains of the piece.

J.
 
hmm...
I'd agree as far as the US sub prime market and the shady characters 'selling' mortgages - in very many instances they lied to their clients & then of course the creative ***** 'repackaging' you mention.

I wouldnt agree with much else - "credit and loans" wise in the UK or Europe -
It isn't really that hard to compare your outgoings with your incomings and see what number you get...
 
Getting offtopic here, SkizZ - but some UK mortgage lenders used exactly the same tactics, and if you did sums on your income vs. outgoing and you told them, then the unscrupulous ones would just tell you you could refinance for more money in a couple of years because the value of your property would have gone up.

Actually the main problem with the UK was that a lot of the business units that did the laundering for the CDS trade were based here and made an obscene amount of money from it.

J.
 
really ?
I've heard some terrible stories coming out of the African American community
simply being lied to and given the wrong figures from the off was commonplace
ignoring any future possibilities....

anyway you're still exclusively focusing on mortgages and their packaged derivatives
and it seemed to me Loewan was talking across the spectrum of "credit and loans"
 
Loewan said:
This is the thing, what is the point of nationalism apart from to segregate and divide? And who would want to be identified as something that they were born into and have no control over? I think as sentient self-aware beings, the thing that we can be all proud of are the choices we make. We are all on this forum, at this minute because of our music taste. It is a choice that we have made because this lifestyle resonates with us more than anything our skin colour, location and profession could offer us. Honestly, I feel sorry for people who are so bland and with so little to be proud of that they have to resort to shackling themselves to their racial mass so they could claim whatever glory they can. To me, nationalism and football supporters go hand-in-hand simply for the fact that they have surrendered their individuality for fanticism.

Blipbop. Your friend J would have lost his job regardless of the immigrants. The recession has hit the country pretty bad. While we all would like to point the fingers at the bankers, the bent politicians or the immigrants for the plight of the economy, I think A LOT of people took more than their fair share when it came to credits and loans, otherwise things wouldn't be as bad as they are now. Honestly, shit happens. We have had it good before. There was a time when £ was at the top of the world and we have enjoyed it (whether we deserved it, some might argue) and now this is the backlash.
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True enough for some people Loewan, but not for him i am afraid - i hear what you say about the backlash of our own greed and what not - i believe that wholeheartedly and wish others could see that too.
The point of J is to represent those people who are not overly open minded, who are struggling through the recession and who are pointing fingers. I think sometimes it is easy to label people as ill educated louts or hooligans and what not when what it really is is general panic of the 'common' working class bloke loosing his job and seeing people who he doesn't consider to be working for society getting handouts for nowt.
I don't believe these things myself, i am lucky to see the other side of the coin. Thing is its places like Barnsley that are going to get the seats for the BNP and UKIP and its far from me to sway peoples votes the other way as the just shrug me off as someone who has been through education and only has partial respectability in the practical department.
During this time where no one trusts a politician because of their twatish behavior and extremism getting the hesitant thumbs up i though i would cast some light on the working class opinion to it all.
Good shout on nationalism and football teams, very good analogy - i see it the same way but then again i do think culture in general relies upon its roots in history and nationality in order to develop.
I couldn't find the figures for immigrant workers and type of employment, the ones i did find were vague at best.
What i have taken out of this discussion is the valid argument that these extremists are just jumping on the immigration bandwagon and promoting it in an appealing way - when the true problem does not stem from anyone overseas but from the corruption that has been 'born and bred' itself in the British Isles.

...Phew that was a lot to get my head round after a night in the pub :P
 
SkizZ said:
anyway you're still exclusively focusing on mortgages and their packaged derivatives
and it seemed to me Loewan was talking across the spectrum of "credit and loans"
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Well, the principle is the same I guess. The borrower will still have the responsibility of no biting more than what they can chew. If the deals were established based on fraudulent means then I can sympathise since the very act itself is criminal.

If a credit card was offered to me (which used happen ALL the time!) then I will think twice before taking out that credit. That is problem at the moment, just because there are loans/credits/mortgage on offer, people just take it without thinking for themselves. Yes, the giant evil corporate is always to blame for influencing the poor innocent public. Unfortunately, until the public learn to walk on it own, I am afraid the big monster will always be there to lead them astray.
 
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